Importing new bike.

[Thebiga]

Hi, I know that this has been gone over many a time but I just want to go over a couple of things.

I have approached a Honda dealer in the UK and asked about exporting a bike to france. They have told me that to sell it without VAT is really only available to outside the EU ! They say that as its been bought in the uk with vat even if its for a day then it is second hand when brought to France. They also say that I would have to make it ok for a french spec.

I thought that most bikes now bought new came with a european certificate of conformity and this would be enough to be able to register the bike without any problem 'Under 106bhp' is this not correct. Also what about the vat and outside the eu. I know that many people have said get one vat free get the vat form from the dealer and just pay the vat here in france. They seem to be saying that is not the case.

This is the second dealer who has said they cannot do it! Any ideas anyone.

[Sunday Driver]

Rather than explain the VAT rules again for the umpteenth time, why not go the the HMRC website and read the official position on VAT free exports to other EU countries.

It's all explained HERE

As one would expect, a UK Honda dealer who normally flogs his bikes to the locals is unlikely to be wholly up to speed on the intricacies of foreign import regulations.  You'd be better off speaking with Honda UK about the certificate of conformity.

 

 

[Thebiga]

Thanks just what I needed.[:D]

[Pickles]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]As one would expect, a UK Honda dealer who normally flogs his bikes to the locals is unlikely to be wholly up to speed on the intricacies of foreign import regulations.  You'd be better off speaking with Honda UK about the certificate of conformity.

[/quote]

We had to teach our local UK Honda car dealer about VAT-free exports and in the end were faced with such a level of incompetence (ie a complete inability on their part to understand the relevant form - all they had to do was READ and FOLLOW the instructions!) that we did all the donkey work ourselves, filled in the forms , got the dealership to sign them, got their accountant to do the invoice, and went to visit the local DVLA office ourselves. We got the dealership to get the name and tel no of the person at Honda UK who does the CoCs, and chased her ourselves, having made the purchase conditional on receipt of a CoC.

Regards

Pickles

[Bob T]

But why would you want to buy a bike in the UK less the 15% VAT and then pay 19.6% TVA here instead?

[Pickles]

[quote user="Bob T"]But why would you want to buy a bike in the UK less the 15% VAT and then pay 19.6% TVA here instead?

[/quote]

I'm assuming that the OP wants a brand new bike that he might not be able to get in France. If the vehicle is less than 6 months old/less than 6000Km since new, French VAT would be charged anyway, EVEN IF UK VAT has been paid. Hence the need to buy it VAT-free in the UK.

Regards

Pickles

[Lizfjr]

I bought a bike in the UK and paid VAT in 2007. Within 6 weeks I imported it. Just had to prove that I had paid UK VAT at the tax office and popped over the road to the prefecture for carte grise.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Lizfjr"]I bought a bike in the UK and paid VAT in 2007. Within 6 weeks I imported it. Just had to prove that I had paid UK VAT at the tax office and popped over the road to the prefecture for carte grise.

[/quote]

Nice to see that the bureaucrats are as consistent as ever in their application of their own rules and in their in-depth knowledge of their own rules!

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/consumers/buying_motor_vehicles/index_en.htm

Regards

Pickles

[Thebiga]

The bike I am looking at is available in France no problem, But when you look at the price in the uk & the price in france I would save 2000 Euros!

Lizfjr, Were you just lucky at the tax office in france on that day! Or did they really see that you had paid the vat and actually beleived it. Would I want to take the risk in buying it new in the uk with vat and then get here for them to say well the bike is only days old etc with small amount of miles on it as far as we are concerned its new so give us the money? I don't think I would want to risk it, I think everyone else seems to think that buying new in the uk without the vat is the only option really without running the risk of paying twice. I would have thought that once they can see that you have paid vat in the uk that it would be fine 'but' we are talking france here....

Anyway how would you go about buying one with vat etc in the uk without a uk address? By getting one for export on export plates it can then be registered in the country it is going to used in. The Honda dealer has yet to come back to me about the fact that vehicles can be sold vat free to other member states so that the tax can be paid in the country of registration and that it would need form 411 but still no news. Thanks to sunday driver for the information. If only the dealers and tax offices were that on the ball!!!

[Sunday Driver]

To organise a VAT free bike for export, the dealer needs to complete form VAT 411.  A copy can be downloaded from the HMRC website.

It's a four part form which the dealer completes with his details and the details of the bike as well as your name and your French address.  The form contains a declaration that you sign to confirm that you will remove the bike from the UK within two months of the date of the supply and that you will notify the tax authorities in your country of residence and pay them any tax due.

He sends the original top page of the VAT 411 to HMRC, gives the first copy to you, keeps the second copy for his VAT records and takes the third copy around to the local DVLA office to get the export registration number.  He gets a rear plate made up and fitted to the bike, then hands you the keys.

That's it - nothing to it......[;-)]

 

 

 

[Lizfjr]

[quote user="Thebiga"]

Lizfjr, Were you just lucky at the tax office in france on that day! Or did they really see that you had paid the vat and actually beleived it. Would I want to take the risk in buying it new in the uk with vat and then get here for them to say well the bike is only days old etc with small amount of miles on it as far as we are concerned its new so give us the money? I don't think I would want to risk it, I think everyone else seems to think that buying new in the uk without the vat is the only option really without running the risk of paying twice. I would have thought that once they can see that you have paid vat in the uk that it would be fine 'but' we are talking france here....

Anyway how would you go about buying one with vat etc in the uk without a uk address?

[/quote]

Well the whole thing was a well established procedure and not luck. She brought out a big ledger, checked my bill of sale and gave me a certificate to say I had paid VAT so that I could go to the prefecture. We actually brought over two GTR1400s that were just weeks old and a KLE 500 that we had owned from new for couple of years. Oh, and to answer your second question, we were living in the UK when we bought tem, but just about to move over. We bought in the UK because we got a good trade - deal on the FJRs. Actually the risk wasn;t in the VAT, it was in the 145 bhp.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Lizfjr"]Well the whole thing was a well established procedure and not luck. She brought out a big ledger, checked my bill of sale and gave me a certificate to say I had paid VAT so that I could go to the prefecture. [/quote]

The official has evidently treated it as a "more than 6 months old/6000Km" vehicle, that's all, which is the procedure that she appears to have followed - and which she might be rather more familiar with. She was wrong to do it that way (but that isn't your problem at all), and France has lost out on the French VAT that would have been liable, but it worked in your favour and there is no question that as a result the bikes are fully legitimately registered as far as France is concerned. The UK would not have any concern since as far as it is concerned VAT was paid and not reclaimed.

TheBiga's problem is that if he tried to do that, he might come up against an official more au fait with the rules.

Regards

Pickles

[Sunday Driver]

Agree with Pickles.  Most imports are older vehicles being brought over by people moving house, so that's the procedure they're most familiar with.

I've helped a number of people through the process here and each time we've gone to the tax office, the clerk takes their V5C, gives it a vague glance then says 'déménagement, oui?'  I just reply 'oui', and she gets the quittus book out......