Dutch Dovetails

[Dick Smith]

Can anyone help me out with the construction of Dutch Dovetail joints?

I was shown how to make them yesterday, but when I went to make my own today they didn't work - I think I have marked them out wrongly.

They look like a jolly good wheeze if you have a lot of drawers to make, or even as a decorative joint for boxes.

Mr Zjob - I was also shown how to make splined mitres for boxes - well up for that one!

[lostinfrance]

Please enlighten me

                              I can and made lots of dovetail joints,

                                                                                       But Dutch Dovetails?

                                                                                                                       You have me now,please explain.

[Dick Smith]

Apparently Dutch cabinet makers when making drawers, instead of making a row of small dovetails (English style) just made one or two large ones. The dovetail shape held the drawer front firmly to the sides when pulled. The tails were pinned with small dowels, which looked quite decorative. The end grain on the front panel of the drawer was covered with a false front, often decorated with marquetry.

I have a series of drawers to make for a tool cupboard, so I thought that this method would be easier, but I naused it on the first attempt. I'll have another go, and if it doesn't look too Frankenjoint I'll post pix.

I've also just ordered a bench top morticer - very exciting. The Ferm that got such good reviews is reduced to £80 clearance at Screwfix. Face frames here I come...

[powerdesal]

For a minute there Dick, I thought a Dutch dove tail joint was a "weedy" one     [8-)]

(A dutch joint is a joint rolled with long smoking paper, rolled

backwards, (like in the sticky side on the outside, this way u leave a

lot of paper unused wich u do not have to smoke, less chance for

cancer, it also makes the joint taste better)

with a hard piece of thick paper (called a 'tip'), spiral or

zigzag shaped, used as a filter at the end of the joint (where u take

the hit from).

Usually filled with more tabacco then weed to let it burn

better and because very good weed is expensive.

All required materials for a 'dutch' joint can be acquired in every

coffeeshop in the Netherlands (amsterdam has more then 150 coffeeshops)

[Dick Smith]

I did try Googling 'Dutch Joints' - doh!

[Jonzjob]

That made my day Dick [:D][:D]!! Though what's with these splined mitres ? I haven't heard of those before??

Hold the press!! I have used them on the odd occasion that I didn't think the mitre would be good enough. I didn't know what they were called though as I had just thought up (re-invented the wheel?) idea [8-|]..

He, he, he, he, he!!

[powerdesal]

I thought they were just reinforced mitre joints, I didn't know they had an official name.

[lostinfrance]

Sorry much of that above me.

                                        Is it the techical talk you model aeroplane boys use?

[lostinfrance]

[quote user="powerdesal"]I thought they were just reinforced mitre joints, I didn't know they had an official name.

[/quote]

Yes they can be called

                                       Secret dovetails

                                                               To those in the trade.

[Jonzjob]

For crying out loud! This daft system has just made me sign in again [:@]! At least it let me this time!!

Back to the subject! LIF I think that you will find that reinforced miter joints and secret dovetails are very different animals

Secret dovetail http://www.pbs.org/wws/howto/dovetailbox.html

Reinforced mitre/splined mitre http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip010511sn.html

A splined mitre is much easier although not so satisfying as a secret dovetail me thinks??[:D]

[powerdesal]

Hells teeth JJ, you would have to be seriously dedicated and grossly underemployed to do secret dovetails, irrespective of the satisfaction.

[lostinfrance]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Hells teeth JJ, you would have to be seriously dedicated and grossly underemployed to do secret dovetails, irrespective of the satisfaction.

[/quote]

No way man.

                    Go and try telling that to a Cabinet maker.

[Chris Head]

That's pretty intricate work Dick, you're doing it just by hand? I've ten or so drawers to make (half blind dovetails with the help of my mate Leigh!) and wouldn't even contemplate doing them by hand, good luck!

[powerdesal]

[quote user="lostinfrance"][quote user="powerdesal"]Hells teeth JJ, you would have to be seriously dedicated and grossly underemployed to do secret dovetails, irrespective of the satisfaction.

[/quote]

No way man.

                    Go and try telling that to a Cabinet maker.

[/quote]

Possibly, but I am just an amateur wood butcher.

[Dick Smith]

The third one I did today took about 10 minutes. Slow, but not impossible...

[lostinfrance]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]The third one I did today took about 10 minutes. Slow, but not impossible...

[/quote]

Very good that but for one thing,

                                                We do-not know the thing you are doing.

[Jonzjob]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Hells teeth JJ, you would have to be seriously dedicated and grossly underemployed to do secret dovetails, irrespective of the satisfaction.
[/quote]

I agree with you Steve.. But I can understand why artisans would have wanted to make those joints. I am not good at joinery, too much disipline and I prefere a free rein. That's what turning gives me, because if you are looking for 2 things that are identicle then you can get them either by copy turning or plastic moulds [+o(][+o(]

I look forward to seeing your finished draws Dick and I don't say that to all the boys [Www]...

[Dick Smith]

Splined mitre - on a box - imagine a mitred corner joint with a series of diagonal cuts through the corner at a variety of different angles. The kerf is then filled in with contrasting wood, or some other material, such as edge-shine plastic. The splines serve to hold the joint together and they look purty. You can also cut dovetailed Dutchmen into the mitred corner.

What I hadn't realised was how easy it is to do mitred edges on a big-up floorstanding sanding station.

[Jonzjob]

Oh blimey Dick, are you smoking some of your DuchDovetails or has your Apple gone wonky??

If I am doing small boxes with a mitred corner I just run them though my router bench with a 45deg cutter. If it's too big for the router then I take some time to set up my band saw to do the cut. Then I cut the slot for the spline with a hand saw. It's not a big job and if the saw cut is not horizontal to the line of the box it is even stronger and looks better too!!!

Just re-read your entry Dick. Looks like we are on the same pipe?? And same idea. Gud-ere-init? Do you think we need the same nurse too?[8-)]

[Dick Smith]

For small stuff I've been using a Stanley Mitre Saw that I bought a few weeks ago. So far so good, and it's also nifty for squaring up stock. But that sanding station - brill.

Except that we had a kid who managed to wedge her fingers between the disc and the rest...  Not nice.

I don't use the router table much lately. Don't know why. Funny how the mood takes you. But mostly in the past couple of weeks we have been making casings for newly-installed windows.

I think I'm about to buy a bench morticer so that I can make some small table-thingies to go beside beds (I suppose you'd call them bedside tables?) and at the ends of sofas. Sofaside Tables?

What's your nurse like, then? Mine's called Trevor.

[Jonzjob]

[IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Carromcorner.jpg[/IMG]

Not so much to strengthen the joint between the Iroko frame and the African iron wood the French box wood does hide a thousand sins. Looks nice too on my Carrom board..

Not the first time I have posted this photo I must admit...[:$]

[Dick Smith]

That's very nice, I like the subtlety of the stringing.

Did you oil it? Not clear from the pic.

[Jonzjob]

Danish oil.. The box wood stringing was cut on my Startrite 301S band saw. I have had it for about 12 years and would not be without it now. It cuts glazind beads for dolls houses and up to 8 inch oak without a hitch. A wonderful machine and made in England!!

Nurse called Frances, doubles as very nice OH!!! A very understanding lady, but I wonder if she understands me sometimes, but who the hell does??[:-))]

When I have to cut mortice joints I use my Forstener bits http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=22051&name=forstner+bits&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=4 . They can't touch you for it 'onest! You can even drill half a hole easily with them? Well yu try to drill half a hole in the edge of a board and these will do it with not a hitch or sneeze. They drill a lovely clean flat bottomed hole. I use them for all sorts of jobs I used to only wonder about before.. For mortice joints all you have to do is run a chisle down the hole to tidy it up, trim the corners of the tenon and you have as good a job as you could ever get with a morticer at a tiny fraction of the cost. Oh yes, you do have to have a drill press to I suppose, it could be better than a hand drill?

 

[Dick Smith]

I hadn't thought of using Forstner bits, just ordinary twist drills. I'll give it a go, but I still think I NEED a morticer. Especially now I have permission...

We have a lovely Startrite bandsaw at school. I asked if I could have it as a retirement present, but they just laughed. And the lathe.

Andy (wood guru, tenth level timber ninja) has still got the Emir bench that he started out with 35 years ago - and it was old then. Massive Record vice etc.

Actually, I've just bought a big Record vice, but not fitted it. I can't decide whether or not to replace the bench vice at the left-hand end of the bench, or install it on the right. I can't decide if it will foul the tail vice, but I would be happier standing to the left of my vice, which I can't do at the moment unless I open the shed/workshop door. If you see what I mean.

Tell Frances to double up the good medication!

[Chris Head]

Agree with JJ, you can cut mortices in different ways Dick, quickly and accurately without spending out on a dedicated machine. If you're splashing out howz about a Woodrat? Apparently they're fantastic machines but I reckon you need a degree to use one! Another MUST is a Tormek, OK it'll hurt the credit card but boy does it do what it says on the label. I'm slightly envious of the bandsaw JJ, never had one but it'd be a godsend. Got any spare meds there buddy? Mine must be wearing off, the woodwork is drawing me back to it inexplicably.