Matrimonial regime

[Winston]

Hi

Can anyone advise what information my notaire is looking for when he asks what is my matrimonial regime?  I have provided all the details of our marriage - names, dates, place etc but he says he needs to know this as well.  I asked for clarification and received the following, so still none the wiser

le régime matrimonial cad est ce que c'est un régime de séparation de biens, ou

régime de la communauté légale ou etc.....

Grateful if any experts out there can tell me what information he is looking for.

Thanks.

[Will]

It's a complicated question, and difficult to answer without knowing why you are talking to a notaire about marriage regimes, but in very simple terms the Hague Convention applies different 'regimes' according to where you were married.

If you were married under English law, then your regime is 'séparation de biens'. If you were married in France then (unless you opted for something different) you will be under the 'communauté universelle' regime.

It has a bearing on things like inheritance which can be important if you are buying a house - a few years ago a lot of people found it necessary to change from séparation de biens to communauté universelle, but under the current version of the law this is somewhat less relevant.

[Winston]

Thanks for the reply.  I'm not entirely sure why he needs to know myself.  I have just bought and sold some property, which is all completely in my name, so not sure why it should even be relevant.  So, as we were married in the UK, I will just tell him separation de biens, and hope he is happy with that.

[idun]

They want to know as these details go on the equivilent of the deeds for your property, so make sure that it is done properly.

I was thinking, 'well done', to your notaire as when we first bought we didn't know about it and weren't even asked. It was only later that we realised that what was on our paperwork was probably not as it should have been.

[tinabee]

[quote user="Winston"]Thanks for the reply.  I'm not entirely sure why he needs to know myself.  I have just bought and sold some property, which is all completely in my name, so not sure why it should even be relevant.  So, as we were married in the UK, I will just tell him separation de biens, and hope he is happy with that.

[/quote]

I recall reading somewhere that under certain French regimes any property bought during the marriage would be classed as community property, so if you are buying in your name only then the regime may be important

[Winston]

I told them 'separation de biens' although I also said I didn't fully understand the question.  They came back and said they need to know if our funds are separate or shared, so I said they are separate (which they are).  Interesting, as I have bought and sold a few properties now and never been asked this before.

[idun]

Well you should have been asked before really.

Since all the changes to the inheritance things in France I am not sure how this works anymore when people's affairs are separate.

Will your children /family be entitled to their money immediately upon your death? Which leads on to have you asked, ie if your spouse will be chucked out of their home if you die first?

I am not interested in your personal situation at all, but if any of those question apply to you, then you should be asking about them too.

[parsnips]

Hi,

(  I assume that neither spouse has children from a previous relationship.)

 Under" separation des biens" whatever is in a spouse's sole name is theirs alone. So if your house was bought in your sole name it belongs to you alone, and on your death your children would inherit at least 2/3 of the title in full -depending on number of children- (although your spouse is entitled -on demand- to the usufruit (life-interest)).  If, as is usual, you bought in "indivision" then you each own 1/2 of the house and on the first death your children will inherit 1/2 the title. 

    The same applies to all investments , bank accounts etc.  The best way to protect your spouse (regardless of how you bought the house) is to have the notaire draw up a "donation entre époux" which gives a surviving spouse the option of taking all the deceased's estate in life interest--specify a "quasi - usufruit selon art. 587 code civil" for all the "biens mobiliers", this ensures full disposal rights for all "consumables" ie. money. A donation costs 140€ each spouse.

   

[Patf]

Parsnips - can a "donation entre époux" be drawn up after the house has been purchased in "indivision?" or has it to be done at the time of purchase?

[parsnips]

[quote user="Patf"]Parsnips - can a "donation entre époux" be drawn up after the house has been purchased in "indivision?" or has it to be done at the time of purchase?

[/quote]

Hi,

 A "donation entre époux " can be made at any time . ( And is revocable if necessary)

[Winston]

Well, I'm quite happy with the 'separation de biens' as it suits my own personal situation perfectly.  All very interesting though, and hopefully may help others!

[Gyn_Paul]

Just as a side issue, the 'Donation Entre Epouse' works for childless couples by cutting off the Napolionic code routes whereby members of the family beyond ordinary issue (brothers, sisters, parents) would otherwise inherit portions of the estate. This way, the surviving partner inherits solely and completely (subject, of course, to provisions of the will).

p 

[allanb]

Suppose you want the surviving spouse to become the unrestricted owner of the house and everything else, so that the children do not inherit anything until the second death?  I don't think this was one of the possibilities mentioned by Parsnips, but there must be many people for whom it would be the preferred option.

The classic way to do this used to be the regime known as communauté universelle with a specific clause called clause d'attribution intégrale which meant that the first death is not treated as an event of inheritance and the surviving spouse becomes the immediate owner of everything.

I say "used to be" because I know there have been some changes in the law and anything I say may be out of date.  However, I think that if you take up residence in France without an existing marriage contract, the importance of the Hague convention is not only that it assumes séparation de biens by default (as Will said) but that it gives you the right to change that - for which you need a notary.

My point is that the OP needs a notary who is familiar with the options

available to people who were not married in France and who do not have a

marriage contract.

[parsnips]

Hi,

      The "Communauté Universelle" with "Attribution Intégrale" is still available , but has lost its tax advantage now the surviving spouse is exempt from inheritance tax. A recent change is that the children have to be informed by the notaire of their right to contest. In the case of second marriages , with "enfants d'un premier lit", this can render the change unreliable.

[idun]

I thought that the children could always challenge as in France it was only under very special circumstances that they could be disinherited and not just the whim of the parent.

[parsnips]

[quote user="idun"]I thought that the children could always challenge as in France it was only under very special circumstances that they could be disinherited and not just the whim of the parent.[/quote]

Hi,

       In a marriage where the children are of the marriage, they are not disinherited , but their inheritance is delayed (till the second death).

       With children from a previous marriage, they have to bring an action "en retrenchment" to overturn the marriage arrangement, and can , if they wish renounce their right to do this , in advance.

[Mikep]

Don't forget that if you succeed in passing everything to the spouse on first death, you miss the opportunity to leave the tax-free allowance to each child - 156,974 euros last time I looked. If your children are remotely reliable, these allowances may be worth having. They are still available on the second death, of course, but your joint estate may exceed the total allowances. It needs careful thought and advice - ideally from your Notaire.