Advice Please - Long Term Rental

[Monsieurmousseux]

Had an enquiry today for our chambre d'hôtes ... But it's for a five-month long "holiday".

The potential guests are a mum and her three-year-old son.

The rental period proposed is from August to December. Our accommodation is a double room (double bed) and furnished conservatory (normally unheated during the summer, and used for sheltering plants during the winter, when there's not much call for the B&B). We can also offer a fully equipped summer kitchen, which effectively makes a stay self-catering.

So what are the pitfalls for us, the owners? What is the best way to go about making sure that this young (?) mum is fully aware of what she is proposing to do without us causing offence? What is the best way of protecting ourselves against the obvious dangers?

Should we ask questions like:

- Do you intend that your little boy should go to school here?

- Do you have transport, as the nearest shop is five miles away?

- Would you be better to book for a month/fortnight whilst you look for some more permanent accommodation?

- Are you house-hunting?

- How do we know you'll be here for five months, and paying your rent, because we won't be able to get new clients if you suddenly leave?

Etc., etc.

We want to help this person as much as we want to help anyone else who would like to book with us. But where does help end and nosiness begin?

Maybe we should mind our own business and just keep quiet, and accept the booking - though that leaves us quite unprotected.

What do you think? Advice, please!

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

[quote]Had an enquiry today for our chambre d'hôtes ... But it's for a five-month long "holiday".The potential guests are a mum and her three-year-old son.The rental period proposed is from August to Decembe...[/quote]

Hi,

a couple of times, we've had long term lets, for example teachers, coming to do a year. What we try to do is to work out what we normally earn from the room for the period, and what we would lose if the room was unlettable.

A lot depends upon how many rooms you have and how many of them you let off peak. If you only have one room then I'd hesitate. BUT, for example, if you have 6 rooms of which you normally only EVER have two rooms let outside the season, then your potential loss is zero by having the room let long term, (because you still have othr rooms available) and you can calculate what the normnal earnings and cost are. This should give some ball park parameters for how much (little) you can let the room for long term.

As for what guarantees you should expect. What do you care? As long as she pays weekly in advance, I don't see a problem. At best you'll gain, and worst you won't lose, because if she leaves unexpectedly, you can let anyway. I'm afraid I see the questions you propose as intrusive. So, could you come back please with more info about your number of rooms, (and perhaps what your normal letting percentages are, if you know them).

[Monsieurmousseux]

Thanks, Ian.

I agree that, especially given the version of the situation I put in my post, the questions that our instincts encourage us to ask are "intrusive". I would never normally think of asking them: it's clearly none of our business. In fact, there are further circumstances which I would not want to publish on a public forum, that make us think that we ought to be just a little circumspect.

To answer your questions directly ... We let out just one room, which has access separate from ours (i.e., the guests do not have to access our accommodation to get to theirs). In addition to the room, there is an adjoining conservatory.

The client is proposing to spend five months here with a child. This is holiday accommodation, and not really geared up to having a semi-permanent guest having access to say, a washing machine.

If we accept a booking for August and September, and that booking is terminated after, say a fortnight, then we would be unlikely to let it at short notice.

Our occupancy rate is very low. We have only just started up in business, and having just one double room so that families cannot be accommodated limits our clientele. So does our geographic position - we are not in a touristy area at all, or at least not for the UK market.

Do you (and others) think it is acceptable to require bookings on a fortnightly basis, in advance, with the client paying a deposit for each booked fortnight?

At present we have no other bookings for the rest of the year.

[Davies]

I guess that there are many things to consider but one thing might be how you get your referrals.

  Human nature being what it is, people try first where they are likely go get the most success, if you have a referrer that is constantly finding that you permanently have no vacancies, they may not continue trying at the time when you would wish them to.

Just a thought,

Dave

[Monsieurmousseux]

Not quite sure what you mean, Dave, but if it's any help we have a number of web-based ads, mostly free, but with two paid ones. The only enquiries we get are from Visit France - and they have dried up since February.

[Davies]

Not quite sure what you mean, Dave, but if it's any help we have a number of web-based ads, mostly free, but with two paid ones. The only enquiries we get are from Visit France - and they have dried up since February.

  Sorry,

   Didn't make myself clear- I was thinking that if you were getting guests referred from tourist info offices or other b&b owners in the vicinity.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

[Monsieurmousseux]

Ah - with you now.

If only that were the situation! No - we have plenty of availability, and we've never had to turn anyone away because we're full!

Thanks for the input, though.

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi Monsieurmousseux,

(wonderful nick btw).

Thanks for giving more details. With only one room I see your problem. Nevertheless, I don't think you can reasonably ask the lady _any_ of those questions, except in what might be termed a friendly, somewhat chatty context, if you see what I mean. It doesn't sound like a lady "en catastrophe", because she wouldn't be making a booking 4 or 5 months hence, but for yesterday.

Given that you've only just started out in business, and it's too soon to be able to put any kind of booking statistics together it's very hard for you to assess what you might be NOT getting in terms of references from various places. However - don't take this the wrong way - it doesn't seem to me as if you've made a great deal of effort to be known, so that, in combination with your position in a not very touristy area makes me suspect that your typical out-of-season occupancy level would be around 5%.

I would think that you could perhaps suggest a deal with her for 60% of your daily rate over the month of August (say you're charging €30 a night normally, that would make 60% of €930 - call it €560), and say half that for the remaining months. All months payable monthly in advance. I think you'd be quids in.

If I might advise more generally.

In the long term, get yourself rated by one of the competent authorities, GdF, Clévacances or Prefecture, print up a cheapo brochure, and take it round to all the local mairies, and Tourist Offices, and make a major effort to be in every free guide going.

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi again,

Sorry, one afterthought.

You don't want to be in the position of being stuck with a young mother and child that you CAN'T get out. Check your legal position with the mairie. I do know that there are some fairly tough regulations about not throwing people out in the winter. You could reasonably ask her if her rent is being paid for by the DASS, and reasonably ask her what she hopes to be able to do for washing clothes (with a 3 yo), as you don't have a washing machine a la disposition des clients and for shopping (as you can't be expected to act as unpaid chauffeur.

Umm, that was three afterthoughts.

[Russethouse]

I think you really could legitimately ask if she has transport, or realises just how rural you are ?

I can't help wondering what she is going to do with a three year old all day, every day for that period (and I have been in a similar position , only for a fortnight, but it seemed quite a long fortnight.....) Perhaps some friendly enquiries might put your mind at ease - it depends very much how you phrase it.

Good Luck !

[Monsieurmousseux]

Yes, Ian and Gay. You are now snuggling up to the real problems I was grappling with! Thanks for your words of wisdom!

I had not thought of asking her about her source of income!! I have just this minute sent this reply, which may lead to a little clarification. (Wish I'd read your last posts before sending it!)

Dear ** *******,

Thank you very much for your enquiry.

May I advise you that we would be happy to accept a booking initially for one month, supported by a deposit of 50%. At the end of August, you would have the choice of continuing to stay here or of finding alternative accommodation if either you or we would find that preferable. There would be no difficulty whatsoever in finding other accommodation in this area after August.

I am sure that you have studied our web page carefully, but may I emphasise that we are in the countryside, five miles from the nearest shop. There is no bus service in the village. The nearest school, if required, is about four miles away. This means that your own vehicle is indispensable. The garden here is not particularly child-friendly, though there are no particular hazards apart from the obvious dangers of the swimming pool.

As you will be aware, our rates are ** euro per night for bed and breakfast. You may, however, prefer to include our summer kitchen, which would bring the cost to ** euro per night (breakfasts not included in this event), but would effectively make your stay self-catering.

A booking for B&B for the full month of August would therefore amount to 31 x ** = *** euro. Deposit 50%: *** euro. To include the summer kitchen, the calculation would be 31 x ** = *** euro. Deposit 50%: *** euro.

Deposits may be paid in sterling to our UK bank account, by bank transfer, or in cash, in euro, by post, with the associated risks of loss in transit.

If you are still interested in our accommodation, please do get in touch with me again as soon as possible, so that we can confirm your occupancy before other enquiries are received.

With kind regards, and thanks once again for your enquiry,

Ian, with regard to our publicity, we're in the throes of assaulting all our local tourist offices, and have been busy improving our accommodation in preparation for joining GdF. I have the info pack!

[mascamps.com]

There's a limit on how long you are allowed to have a B&B guest stay and as far as I know, it's a lot less than five months.

I believe that it's got something to do with legislation relating to rented accomodation kicking in after a while. Net effect is that legally they would be treated as though they were renting an apartment from you after a while (well before five months). Once that happens, you will have serious trouble getting rid of them if they decide that they would quite like to continue living in your house. They might even be entitled to have the room reviewed (more than likely reducing it).

Much as I personally would have severe trouble turning down a five month let with the prospect of a nice steady source of income, I think it would be best to consult a notaire to check out the legal position for such long term lets before you accept it.

 

Arnold

 

[mascamps.com]

Just reread your previous post of the e-mail you sent.

If you drop the breakfast element, I think that accepting a five month renter would immediately put her into the category of a "normal" rental agreement person ie from the day she turns up, you have no automatic rights to throw her out at the end of the period. Check with a notary for sure in this event: 100€ notaire consultation fee now is much better than several thousands of legal costs later to regain your room.

 

 

Arnold

 

[mascamps.com]

Tried to find the limit in France and can't (yet). In the UK, the maximum limit for B&B appears to be 28 days.

 

 

Arnold

[Russethouse]

Why not ask the tourist office about the length of stay - they may know, and if they don't then it would be worth getting advice, perhaps including how the contract should be worded.

You say that there are other factors in her booking, which may explain why she wants to be in your area for the period ?

What about bedding - do you provide a cot or small bed, or is she thinking of sharing the double ? (if so you may need a large rubber sheet )

I think you are right to have some concerns about this and its best to get your worries sorted or you may have 5 uncomfortable months of worry. Lets hope she'll be delightful and problem free.......

Good Luck !

[Monsieurmousseux]

Thanks, Arnold, Ian, Gay .... and anyone else whose reply I can't see because of this software ...

All warnings, advice, info, etc., is noted, and clearly I will have to seek advice locally. If you're interested, I'll keep you posted.

Oh, Ian, glad you like the username! But it's much easier to just use "Paul" - which is very convenient as it happens to be my name!

[Russethouse]

Paul,

Yes, please do let us know, others may find it useful if the same sort of thing crops up again.

[Suandpete]

Hi

 

I don't want to throw cold water on what could potentially be a very nice booking - but are you sure it's genuine?  We have a gite and have received a couple of extremely dodgy enquiries (by e-mail) both for 5 months!  As soon as I tried to ask for my details we heard no more.  Just a thought - there are a number of scams around...

 

Su

[Monsieurmousseux]

Hi, Su.

Thanks for the warning about scams. I did indeed smell a rat on receiving the enquiry. However, my nose may have been over-active!

The enquirer gave her full name and address, including postcode, and a blueyonder email address. Seemed kosher. I went immediately to www.192.com to see what it came up with. The enquirer's name was there, along with the names of other occupants of the property, as listed in the electoral rolls for 2002-2004.

I don't think a scammer would have put a full name and address that exists. Would s/he? Am I naive?

In any case, there's no booking without a hefty advance deposit.

Thans for your concern, Su. It's good to know that there are people out there who have genuine regard for other folks' welfare. And Lord knows, sometimes I need a lot of looking after!