Do I charge half or full amount?

[Quillan]

We know of a couple who didn't listen and did it 'their way'. After three visits by the Douanes, Impôts and gendarmes, the fines plus the costs of registering they had to sell up and go back to the UK. Somebody else bought the place to run as a CDH and wondered why they have had a couple of visits as well (they did it right and don't have a problem). This indicates to me that even a small visit can't be ignored and that all government interested parties do talk to each other. Best to do it right from the start really.

My hospital cancelation was about two weeks before they were due. I didn't mention the deposit the guy just said keep it so I suspect he was telling the truth. We have been caught out twice so far with meals, they phone on the day to make a reservation and ask for a meal, we cook the meal and they never turn up but because it's on the day and we don't take cards we can't ask for a deposit, I ate very well those nights all be it quite late. I guess its all part of the fun of being in this sort of business.

[Coco]

[quote user="Quillan"]

My hospital cancelation was about two weeks before they were due. I didn't mention the deposit the guy just said keep it so I suspect he was telling the truth. [/quote]

Surely neither you or he would expect to refund the deposit.  That's the whole point of a deposit and most are non-refundable.  I wouldn't even question it if I had paid a deposit for anything, be it accommodation, furniture whatever, if I was then unable to continue with the full purchase I would take it as read that I had forfeited my deposit.  Only if I were covered by insurance and the reason for not continuing with the purchase were out of my control would I try and obtain a refund, but via the insurance company, not the seller of the service or goods.

Glad I keep carbon copies of every room ever rented then Miki!! [:D]  I know of a couple who have started up this year.  He has a bar, separate tables for guests, never eats with them and serves lunches.  I've told him once (my OH has told me not to interfere any more) that he is not allowed to do any  of these things but his attitude is, well who's going to find out.  I suggest the fact that he has a big sign outside his house and another on the main road is going to be a big giveaway!

[Quillan]

[quote user="St Amour"][quote user="Quillan"]

My hospital cancelation was about two weeks before they were due. I didn't mention the deposit the guy just said keep it so I suspect he was telling the truth. [/quote]

Surely neither you or he would expect to refund the deposit.  That's the whole point of a deposit and most are non-refundable.  I wouldn't even question it if I had paid a deposit for anything, be it accommodation, furniture whatever, if I was then unable to continue with the full purchase I would take it as read that I had forfeited my deposit.  Only if I were covered by insurance and the reason for not continuing with the purchase were out of my control would I try and obtain a refund, but via the insurance company, not the seller of the service or goods.

[/quote]

We just contacted all the people we had turned down because we were full that week and took the first that replied so not only did I have 7 days worth of dinners and half the accomodation paid for (we now ask that all meals plus half the accomodation be paid as a deposit) but I got paid again by the people who replaced him so I was quite happy really. The rules (see my original post) do say that you should give the deposit well two thirds of it back if it is something beyond their (the clients) control which being ill and rushed to hospital is.

[Miki]

Only if proof of that is given can deposits be remboursed. We have only

requested a Doctors note on two occasions when we were unsure but even

then, if sufficient time was not given, then any payments given are non

recoverable and if in residence, we would simply say as we do to

anyone, if we can re-let  the room(s) we will of course rembourse

you.....We are not a charity nor a trial house for people to come and

see if us, the house or the area are to their liking.

We have had more pathetic excuses aimed at us than you would believe.

On 90% of the occasions we get requests with "we have to leave very

quickly, sorry" and when we  say, "no problems, if we can relet

etc etc" All of a sudden and almost without fail, within minutes they

are back to let us know they have sorted the problems out and will be

fulfilling their dates.......you kind of get  to know who is

trying to pull a stunt and genuine ones are fairly obvious for the

greater part. We do get those that say they have to leave and are quite

happy to pay for the full period of their booking.

And yes, one client who pulled the hospital excuse, expecting a rebate

never did send the note but one did.........................so egalité !

We have never taken money in advance for food, never thought about it

to be honest. Has anyone ever had a resto ask to be paid in

advance...ever ?  Not me  for sure. I read that some restos

in the UK who are really busy have been known to ask for credit card

number just in case of a non arrival but..........

[Cassis]

[quote user="Miki"][quote user="Cassis"]Hmmm.  We give a facture (carbon kept) if it

is asked for.  We have to OFFER them as well?  Who enforces

that and how? We have prices on the inside room doors.  I've never

seen any more in any of the French-run GdF B&Bs we stay in. 

Is it only some of the Brits who are obsessed with obeying every detail

of the crackpot regs?  I've had a drink.  Outlaws in bed.

[/quote]

Like all things in France Cassis, it is only when inspected by the

people I mentioned or the douanes or the Impôts that these things are

checked and believe me when I say, if you are not keeping records

right, or complying with all these matters, then you are for the high

jump, I kid you not.

[/quote]

The reason I think the rule about having to offer a facture is crackpot, is that I can't see how it can be properly monitored or the rule enforced.  I swear that I have never, ever been offered a facture when we have stayed in a B&B in France. 

For ourselves, whenever we have someone staying who is on business we offer them a facture, but not Joe Holidaymaker. 

I may put a small note on the bottom of the price list saying they can have one if they wish, just in case, though!

[Cassis]

[quote user="Miki"] I read that some restos

in the UK who are really busy have been known to ask for credit card

number just in case of a non arrival but..........

[/quote]

Quite common in central London, Miki, especially for lunchtimes.

[Miki]

So, it won't affect me and the restos I use when back in London !!

And never known it happen here, well not in any I frequent !!

[Cassis]

It happened in the 90's when all of a sudden work became serious stuff again and people started cancelling lunch dates at short notice.  Ah, how I longed for the free-for-all fun of the Eighties during the cold days of the 90's and onwards - lunching was never the same once everything had to be justified on a cost-benefit basis and there were these things called 'entertainment budgets'!  [:'(]

I think you'll still be okay at Mike's Pie and Mash Shop on the Old Kent, though.

[Just Katie]

[quote user="Cassis"]
I think you'll still be okay at Mike's Pie and Mash Shop on the Old Kent, though.
[/quote]

TRESCO QUICK CASSIS IS REALLY BEING NASTY TO ME NOW.  My Pie and Mash alert is more sensitive than Miki's scoobie alert.

Don't say pie and mash. I can't get it in Wales.  Look at the marble benches and the way the mash is served.  Can't be doing with ice cream scoops.

[Cassis]

That was quick - I guess the scent of liquor was wafted towards Wales on a teasing breeze!

[Just Katie]

Cassis, how do you know so much about pie and mash, you are a geordie mun!!!

[Cassis]

Wey aye, hinny, burrah worked doon thuh Smerk fer twenty-odd yeeahs!

[Just Katie]

Chris Evans asked for people to phone in with words which sound cool in a geordi accent.

"Kowasaki"

"Sheeeera"

"Taramasalta"

A little boy phoned in and they asked him why he wasn't in school and he said "Conjunctivitus".  He fully caught them on the unawares and the programme went out of control for about 5 mins.

Boy did I laugh that day.......

 

[Miki]

I do love the Geordie accent, it's more better than the Brummie one !!

I do love the old jellieds, (especially when at the doggies) as well as pie mash & liquor but one of

my real favouries when on the run (not literally just meaning busy) was

to pop over to Tubby Isaacs for a lovely Salt Beef sarnie coated in

Horse radish sauce, yummy !

Last Xmas, all was planned to pop up East and then no one

wanted to go, getting too snobby my old muckers, it's all Delis and

moody French & Italians gaffs now.....[:'(]

[Cassis]

I don't think that 'conjunctivitis' in Geordie can be written phonetically!

Con-Jun-kta-Vey-tiss

Nah, dizent wauk.

[Cassis]

[quote user="Miki"]pop over to Tubby Isaacs for a lovely Salt Beef sarnie coated in

Horse radish sauce

[/quote]

Oh, yesssss!  Real thing still available in most caffs in a triangle bounded by The Angel, Sutton Market and corner of Old Street and City Road.  I also used to regularly go to the boxing at Bethnal Green further east.  Watched Dynamo Dunne go from a fresh-faced amateur to World Champ.

[Just Katie]

I used to nag my dad to take me to the dogs and speedway at Hackney.  It was around the corner but he never did so I used to watch it on telly.  Funny thing was he should have taken me because I was really good at chosing dogs for some reason.

[Miki]

Dynamo Dunn ??????

You've got me there, not the Richard Dunn that fought Ali surely ?

Katie, we used to prefer the White City and Wimbledon and on occasion

with a trip to the seasidie thrown in,  Brighton. We had a few

friends over the years with dogs. and a couple of trainers thrown in to

boot. I

could tell you a great story about  a mate who had one of the top

dogs of the mid 80s and a hot favourite for the Derby.........but

someone

might be reading ! As for chosing dogs, I daren't say anything, she who

rules, can read from 1 km away, I swear she can and if the MIL is going

past on the broom, for sure she will spot anything !

There was a place (like a mobile shed !!) up by Spitalfields that used to do sandwiches really early

in the morning and many was the time we would be on our way home and

pop over there for a bacon sarnie and a mug of tea with 10 sugars !!

[Coco]

Cassis, I never realised before that you were a Geordie...... I think I love you!  I just have to hear a Geordie accent to go all soppy and girlie - worked with too many good looking  young engineers in my old P&O days; it's become an inbred thing in me now.  Doesn't matter what they look like - I even had a thing for Jimmy Nail, now how ugly is he!!!!

As for the dogs, well I just used to love going to Walthamstow, but I hear that's gone all posh these days.  Never did like the pie, mash and liquor though - really upset my mate Lynn from the Roman Road when I couldn't eat it when we went down the market on her 21st birthday.  It was her treat to me, as a welcome to the East End. yukkk. Now the buckets of seafood that her uncle brought home from Billingsgate, that was another matter...[:D]

[Cassis]

Jimmy Nail is actually a handsome Geordie. [:D]

Never did Walthamsow but went to Catford a couple of times - we lived at the bottom of Beckenham Hill for a time (behind the Green Man on Catford Road, near Homebase) in the eighties when we first moved to London.  Our first house (flat). 

The Green Man had strippers on a Sunday lunchtime.  So the posters outside said. [Www]

[Quillan]

Our deposits - Having finally read the 'Terms and Conditions' on the back of the "Contract de Location Chambres D'Hôtes" [+o(] it would seem that we can't charge for the food up front only the accomodation which can only be between 15 and 25% under French law which is what you are operating under. English law does not apply even if you are English, don't advertise in France and only take English guests. The reason we started charging for the food was because of a couple of no shows. We always buy fresh on the day and its preped in the afternoon so if anyone does not turn up its down to me, the wife and the dog to consume what can't be frozen.

The part which effects the original post is.:

INTERRUPTION DU SEJOUR

En cas d'interruption anticipée du séjour par le locataire, et si la responsabilité du propriétaire n'est pas remise en cause, il ne sera procède à aucun remboursement, hormis le dépôt de garantie

Force majeure: Si le locataire justifie de motifs graves présentant les caractères de la force majeure (événement imprévisible, irrésistible et extérieur au locataire) rendant impossible le déroulement de la location, le control est restitué de plein droit. Le montant des loyers déjà verses par le locataire lui est restitué, au prorata de la durée d'occupation qu'il restait à effectuer.

This basically means that unless they (the client) can produce proof they get no refund what so ever except for the deposit? Although the contract is for CDH it seems clear that it was first written for gites and just copied on to the CDH contracts as it speaks about inventories and refers to the deposit almost as a damage deposit. I can't ever see CDH owners giving and inventory to a client. So in this particular situation the guy would have to pay for the whole of his stay.

I don't know if all GDF contracts are issued centrally or are regional/departmental but the above is what is on the back of ours.

As a matter of interest it also says at the bottom that they will only deal with complaints by the host or client unless on production of the contract which must be signed by both parties. Never knowingly ever had a complaint and admitting I don't (always) issue a contact I don't know if GDF stick with this, I suspect not.

One interesting point which was raised in another post about how long you should wait to declare a 'no show' the contract stipulates midnight on the day of arrival which seems to indicate that you are obliged to stay up and wait till then. If you don't and the guest turns up (and you don't let them in) you must give double the deposit back and pay an agreed compensation plus interest from the date of the last signature on the contract. It must be paid within 15 days.

Likewise the client can only cancel by writing a registered letter or by telegram, do they still have the latter in France?

As Miki said earlier there is, a rather complicated, description of returning all or part of a deposit based on time and percentages. I have it scanned in and am happy to post it if any one wants to know. Although this is a GDF contract it reminds you in several places that it conforms to French Civil law. By that I guess it means that there are certain parts which apply to non GDF CDH's as well.

Hope this helps.

 

 

[Cassis]

If it'll fit on the page, Quillan, there'd be no harm posting it as at least it will give the GdF official line.  I suspect that the 'official' version is often ignored unless An Inspector Calls.  An awful lot of Gites de France regs and general info seem more appropriate to gites rather than B&B, though they appear to apply to both types of let.

[quote user="Miki"]Dynamo Dunn ?????? You've got me there, not the Richard Dunn that fought Ali surely ? [/quote]

No, Colin "Dynamo" Dunne, a Liverpool lad who boxed out of Bethnal Green.  Became World Lightweight Champion, defeating Billy Schwer among others.  Retired in 2002 with a record of 38 wins, 3 losses and 26 knockouts.  He was an amazing, non-stop action puncher - hence the "Dynamo" tag.

[img]http://www.britishboxing.net/img/records/boxers/picture_10620.jpg[/img]

[quote user="Miki"]

There was a place (like a mobile shed !!) up by Spitalfields that used to do sandwiches really early

in the morning and many was the time we would be on our way home and

pop over there for a bacon sarnie and a mug of tea with 10 sugars !!

[/quote]

I used to walk through Smithfield on the way to work in the morning.  Very odd to see blokes drinking pints of beer in the pubs at 8.00am!

[Quillan]

OK here it is. I would just like to say this is on the ones issued out of Carcassonne. I would like to assume all of France has the same but we all know some things are not always the same

CONDITIONS GENERALES DE LOCATION

Ce contrat est réservé à l'usage exclusif des locations de vacances agréées Chambres d'Hôtes Gîte de France el seule la loi française est applicable au control.

 

DISPOSITIONS GENERALES

Le locataire ne pourra en aucune circonstance se prévaloir d'un quelconque droit au maintien dons les lieux à l'expiration de la période de location initialement prévue sur le présent con trot, sauf accord du propriétaire.

Aucune modification (rature, surcharge, ...) ne sera acceptée dons la rédaction du contrat sans l’accord des deux parties.

Le propriétaire s'engage à ne divulguer à aucun tiers les informations de quelque nature que ce soit, sur quelque support que ce soit, que le locataire aura été amène à lui donner à l'occasion de l'exécution du présent control.

Ces dernières dispositions ne sont toutefois pas applicables s’agissant des demandes de renseignements qui seraient formulées par les administrations et/ou les Tribunaux.

 

PAIEMENT

La réservation deviendra effective des Iors que le locataire aura retourne un exemplaire du présent contrat accompagne du montant des arrhes, (minimum: 15 % ; maximum: 25 %) du séjour, avant la date indiquée au recto.

Le solde de la location sera verse le jour de l’arrivée après l’établissement d'un état des lieux contradictoire.

Le locataire accepte que cet état des lieux puisse être effectue soit par le propriétaire, soit par un mandataire du propriétaire dûment habilite et muni d'un pouvoir écrit.

 

DEPOT DE GARANTIE (OU CAUTION)

Au-delà d'une nuitée, le locataire verse à son arrivée un dépôt de garantie en plus du solde du loyer, le montant maximum ne pouvant excéder 20% du montant du loyer. Le propriétaire peut procéder à l’encaissement immédiat du dépôt de garantie.

Il sera restitue dons un délai maximum de 15 jours à compter du départ du locataire, déduction faite, par le propriétaire des montants à la charge du locataire aux fins de remise en état des lieux, réparations diverses, ...

Le montant de ces retenues devra être dûment justifie par le propriétaire sur la base de l’état des lieux de sortie, constat d'huissier, devis, factures,

Si le dépôt de garantie s'avère insuffisant, le locataire s'engage à compléter la somme sur la base des justificatifs fournis par le propriétaire.

Ce présent cautionnement ne pourra en aucun cas être considère comme participation au paiement du loyer.

 

UTILISATION DES LIEUX

Le locataire jouira de la location d'une manière paisible et en fera bon usage, conformément à la destination des lieux.

A son départ, le locataire s'engage à rendre la location aussi propre qu'il l'aura trouvée à son arrivée.

L'ensemble du matériel figurant à l’inventaire, devra être remis a la place qu'il occupait lors de l’entrée dons les lieux.

Toutes réparations quelle qu'en soit l’importance, rendues nécessaires par la négligence du locataire en cours de location seront a sa charge.

La location ne peut en aucun cas bénéficier a des tiers, sauf accord préalable du propriétaire.

La sous location est interdite au preneur, sous quelque prétexte que ce soit, même a titre gratuit, sous peine de résiliation control. Le montant intégral du loyer restant acquis ou do au propriétaire.

Les Iocaux loues sont a usage d'habitation provisoire ou de vacances, excluant toute activité professionnelle, commerciale ou artisanale de quelque nature que ce soit, voire a caractère complémentaire ou occasionnel de l’habitation (maximum 3 mois).

L'installation de tentes ou le stationnement de caravanes sur le terrain de la propriété lauée est interdit, sauf accord préalable du propriétaire.

Le propriétaire fournira le logement conforme a la description qu'il en a faite et le maintiendra en état de servir. En règle générale, le, le locataire quitte les lieux a l’heure prévue au contrat ou à une heure convenant au propriétaire, après état des lieux.

 

CAS PARTICULIERS

Le nombre de locataires ne peut être supérieur à la capacité d'accueil maximum indiquée sur le catalogue ou l’état descriptif.

A titre exceptionnel et sous réserve de l’accord du propriétaire, il pourra être déroge a cette régie.

 

ETAT DES LIEUX ET INVENTAIRE

L'état des lieux et inventaire du mobilier et divers équipements seront faits en début et en fin de séjour par le propriétaire ou son mandataire et le locataire. En cas d'impossibilité de procéder a l’inventaire lors de l’arrivée, le locataire disposera de 72 H pour vérifier l’inventaire affiche et signaler au propriétaire les anomalies constatées (concernant les séjours d'une durée inférieure ou égale a 4 jours, le délai de 72 h est ramène a 24 h). Passe ce délai, les biens loues seront considères comme exempts de dommages a I'entrée du locataire.           .

Un état des lieux contradictoire de sortie doit obligatoirement être établi. Le locataire accepte que cet état des lieux puisse être effectue soit avec le propriétaire, soit avec un mandataire du propriétaire dûment habilite et muni d'un pouvoir écrit.

Si le propriétaire constate des dégâts, il devra en informer le locataire sous huitaine.

 

CONDITIONS DE RESILIATION

Toute résiliation doit être notifiée par lettre recommandée ou télégramme :

a) Résiliation à l’initiative du locataire.

Toute résiliation du pressent contrat a l’initiative du locataire doit être adressée au propriétaire par courrier recommande avec accuse de réception a l’adresse indiquée en tête des présentes, la date de réception par le propriétaire faisant foi.

- Lorsque la résiliation intervient dons un délai supérieur a 90 jours avant l’entrée dons les lieux, le propriétaire restitue dans les 30jours de la résiliation l’intégralité du montant des arrhes versées par le locataire.

- Si cette résiliation intervient dons un délai compris entre 60 a 90 jours avant l’entrée dons les lieux, le propriétaire restitue dons les 30jours de la résiliation 75% du montant des arrhes versées par le loco to ire.

- Si cette résiliation intervient dons un délai compris entre 30 à 60 jours avant l’entrée dons les lieux, le propriétaire resitue dons les 30jours de la résiliation' 50% du montant

des arrhes versées par le locataire.

- Si cette résiliation intervient dons un délai inférieur a 30 jours avant l’entrée dons les lieux, le propriétaire conserve l’intégralité du montant des arrhes versées par le locataire. Lorsque, avant l’entrée dons les lieux et quelque soit le moment auquel elle intervient, la résiliation effectuée par le locataire se fonde sur un cas de force majeure dûment justifie, le propriétaire doit restituer dons les 30 jours de cette résiliation l’intégralité du montant des arrhes versées.

b) Si le locataire ne s'est pas présenté le jour mentionne sur le con trot et passe un délai de 24 H et sans avis notifie du propriétaire :

- le présent contrat est considère comme résilie,

-Ies arrhes restent acquises au propriétaire,

-le propriétaire peut disposer de sa location.

c) Résiliation a l’initiative du propriétaire :

Avant l’entrée dons les lieux :

En cas de résiliation du présent contrat par le propriétaire avant l’entrée dans les lieux, pour quelque cause que ce soit sauf cas de force majeure, il reversera au locataire le double du montant des arrhes reçues augmente des intérêts au taux légal (le point de départ du montant des intérêts court a l’expiration d'un délai de trois mois a compter du versement des arrhes, jusqu'à la restitution).

Cette restitution sera adressée au locataire par courrier recommande avec accuse de réception dons un délai de 15 jours a compter de la notification de la résiliation.

Apres l’entrée dons les lieux :

Lorsque la résiliation du contrat par le propriétaire intervient pendant la durée de la location, elle doit être dûment justifiée (défaut de paiement du loyer, cheque sans provision émis par le locataire, détérioration avérée des lieux loues, plaintes du voisinage, ...).

Cette résiliation, qui intervient par courrier recommande avec accuse de réception, entraîne le départ du locataire dons les deux jours de la date de réception du courrier lui notifiant cette décision.

Le propriétaire se réserve le droit de conserver le montant du dépôt de garantie dons les conditions précisées au paragraphe «dépôt de garantie (ou caution)>>.

Quelque soit la cause de la résiliation, l’intégralité du montant des loyers demeure acquise au propriétaire.

 

INTERRUPTION DU SEJOUR

En cas d'interruption anticipée du séjour par le locataire, et si la responsabilité du propriétaire n'est pas remise en cause, il ne sera procède à aucun remboursement, hormis le dépôt de garantie

Force majeure: Si le locataire justifie de motifs graves présentant les caractères de la force majeure (événement imprévisible, irrésistible et extérieur au locataire) rendant impossible le déroulement de la location, le control est restitué de plein droit. Le montant des loyers déjà verses par le locataire lui est restitué, au prorata de la durée d'occupation qu'il restait à effectuer.

 

ASSURANCES

Le locataire est tenu d'assurer le local qui lui est confie ou loue.

Il doit donc vérifier si son contrat d'habitation principale prévoit l’extension villégiature (location de vacances).

Dons l’hypothèse contraire, il doit intervenir auprès de sa compagnie d'assurances et lui réclamer l’extension de la garantie ou bien souscrire un contrat particulier, au titre de clause "villégiature".

Une attestation d'assurances lui sera réclamée a l’entrée dons les locaux ou a défaut une déclaration sur l’honneur.

 

LITIGES OU RECLAMATIONS

Il est recommande de s'adresser â l’Organisme Départemental agrée Gîtes de France, â l'Office de Tourisme ou au Syndicat d'Initiative local qui interviendra pour favoriser le règlement a l’amiable des litiges :

- si le contrat a été signe par le propriétaire et le locataire,

- si la réclamation est formulée dons les trois premiers jours après l’arrivée, pour tout litige concernant l’état des lieux ou l’état descriptif,

- a l’issue du séjour pour toutes les autres contestations.

Pour tous les litiges qui naîtraient de l’exécution ou de l’interruption du présent contrat, seuls les Tribunaux du ressort du lieu de l’immeuble objet de la location sont compétents.

[Cassis]

Blimmin 'eck, Quillan!  I hope you just copied and pasted that! [blink]

I think I'll have to print it off to read it.  Thank you.

[Cerise]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of contracts for C d H a bit weird.  I have stayed in B & Bs in England, France, and elsewhere and no one has ever offered or asked me to sign a contract.  Not saying they shouldn't, would just be a bit taken aback if they did.   I suppose in this litigious age people feel the need to to cover every eventuality.