B&B in a family home?

[jerrytlr]

Hi all, first post on this forum!

We recently moved to NE Dordogne area and now iive here permanently. I would like to start running a low key B&B operation - just one room - in our main home, which I feel has fantastic potential to provide excellent accommodation.

My main concern however is that the room is in our main family home, not a separate building, and we have young kids (5 and 10) who wouldn't necessarily blend quietly into the background even if we wanted them to (we wouldn't).

Does anybody run an operation like this, or do you all have B&B accommodation that is isolated from the main family home? Or are you all retired without kids living with you (joke ;-) )

Am I mad to even consider it?

The guests would have plenty of their own space - it is mainly noise I am worried about.

Any thoughts gratefully received.....

Cheers,

Jerry

[Quillan]

OK, well a B&B in France is called a Chambres D'hotes (CDH) which means room of hosts. What this means to you and the rest of us is that you have paying guests that stay in your home. There are also things called Gites which are what we would call self catering accommodation. The difference between the two is that a CDH is your home and whilst a Gite is separate, it might be in the same building but has a separate entrance and there is no link between Gite and your house i.e no linking doorway or common entrance for example.

So yes you can rent the room out in your home, this is perfectly normal for a CDH. However there is one possible problem, you need the room to either have an en-suite bathroom or there must be a bathroom opposite (or close by) that is reserved for sole use of the guests for that room. So basically every room has it's own private bathroom, either attached (en-suite) or separate but within easy reach. You are not allowed to share your bathroom with theirs.

As to your children well other than telling them to keep the noise down at night near the bedroom it should not be a problem. Think of it as if you had friends come to stay and they were having a nap during the day or sleeping at night, you wouldn't want your kids to wake them up.

Don't forget you will need a licence from the Duane's to serve tea, coffee and juices at breakfast and you will need to see your mayor for a form, complete it and return it getting a receipt at the same time (getting a receipt is very important). The licence from the Duane's is free although I understand some departments make a small admin fee. If you want to serve evening meals with wine, be you give the wine free or charge for it you will also need another type of licence which is also free and includes the ability to serve the breakfast drinks. This other, licence can be of two types, one lets you give alcohol with evening meals, the next one up also allows you to sell it with evening meals. You can only give or sell alcohol with a proper 3 course meal, you cannot sell it without (like you can't sell them a beer when their sitting round the pool).

Hope that helps.

[crossy67]

I read on here a while back that you would need a food hygiene certificate at iro £3k to give cooked food.  Am I right Q?

[Quillan]

That all seems to have gone by the board for the moment. We had our inspections recently and I asked about this and both GDF and Clevacances said that the proposed law never got off the ground. That does not mean to say it never will come in mind but we will wait and see.

[Loiseau]

QUOTE

..a B&B in France is called a Chambres D'hotes (CDH) which means room of hosts...

END QUOTE

Bizarrely, "hôte" also means guest!

Angela

[crossy67]

Nice one, thanks for the clarification Q.

[jerrytlr]

Thanks for the very informative answer! Much appreciated.

The room I have in mind has its own bathroom (with a very nice view!) and there will even be a dining room just for the guests which adjoins their room - so I think the physical layout is almost perfect.

What I am really concerned about is managing people's expectations - I would be very upset if for example people were expecting complete tranquility... I guess it all boils down to marketing it accurately!

The key thing is, it seems it would not be unusual to rent a room in a house with kids - that is reassuring!

Cheers,

Jerry

[Quillan]

Just one question, why a special dinning area?

When it comes to meals and under the CDH rules they are all expected to sit at the same table and you should sit with them. Not so important for breakfast but if you offer Table D'hôte (evening meal) then they are expected to eat with you (as opposed you with them if you get my drift), if they don't then you will need a restaurant licence. The same applies if you have more than one couple (you and them must sit at the same table). Likewise you can't offer a menu. Basically TDH means you share your evening meal with your guests, they have whatever you eat. Any variance on this will, as I said, mean you need a restaurant licence. This means separate kitchen, health (and hygiene) regs come in to play and it will cost you a few thousand Euros to get there. As a CDH offering TDH in the format I have explained you do not have to comply with these regulation. You can use your own kitchen, put food in the same fridge and don't have to meet the same standards of health and hygiene that a restaurant does. However, if the small dinning area is only accessible from their room then you may use it, if they want, for breakfast only.

As an example when we were first inspected I had four tables (we have four rooms) set out individually on the terrace and a menu placed on each. I got a real rollicking during the inspection, no, no, no they said, one long table plus one for you and your wife and no menus. The only exception to the menu (or no choice) is if you have guests where one (or more) has a special dietary requirement (diabetic, veggie etc).

[betoulle]

Further to Quillan's excellent responses (though how many of us actually sit down to have breakfast with our guests as stipulated by GdF is debatable.....it would be impossible for 90% of the time) another idea is to turn the dining room adjacent to the guest bedroom into a guest sitting area with coin cuisine, equipped with a fridge, microwave, kettle, tea & coffee facilities & games/books etc.  If you place a TV & DVD player in there as well then the B&B room turns into a suite & you could charge a little more....alternatively you could have a single bed/divan in there & turn it into a family suite which would be fine for sharing a bathroom & again you could increase your rates & accommodate more at peak times.  GDF have no problems with 2 rooms sharing a bathroom if it is only offered as a family suite, I have a colleague in the village who was for 15yrs president of our GdF & she offers 2 double rooms with shared bathroom, supposedly only for 1 couple or a family/2 couples travelling together. 

We have both CdH & gites & frequently have B&B guests staying who are part of the family/friends of guests in 1 or both gites - another thought for your marketing.  I have another friend who successfully increases her gite occupancy in the summer this way - it is ideal for grandparents who want to be with their family but also have some independence & privacy. You will also find that you will get more bookings for the B&B if there is a small facility for storing food & being able to make tea & coffee with a possibility of having a take away or picnic - extremely popular with our guests, especially if you provide some private outdoor seating areas where they can have some privacy from their hosts - also gives you more privacy.

[betoulle]

oops, forgot to mention that if catering for just a couple in the B&B we do find that the majority of our guests like to drink, so need somewhere to store wine, beer, tonic, coke etc...  Before we set up our coin cuisine we had baths full of beer bottles, bottles of milk in the showers, mouldy cheese in dressing table drawers, empty pizza boxes & chicken carcasses in the waste bins & needed to offer our guests access to our fridges which did not work out as invariably they spent a lot of time in our kitchen & some of our food & drink went walkabout...  If concerned about having guests in your home, then the secret to everyones happiness & comfort is to give all of you privacy.  Those who don't want to be in a family home & object to you having children or pets etc won't come & stay in the first place.....  Those who are OK with it will not cause you any problems (fingers crossed) & as with the gites the secret to success is happy guests who become regulars & hence friends who you look forward to seeing every year.

[Kitty]

We ran a B&B and have several children.  It was very difficult.  The main problems were:

* getting the children to keep the noise down

* keeping the house tidy

The key thing is transparency - we told the guests up front that it was a family house, on the website and again on booking.  We didn't have any complaints - indeed, we made many friends because guests enjoyed meeting the children.

With the youngest, I had a game.  His pocket money was reduced by 10 pence every time he was spotted by or heard by a guest.  It was brilliant.  He would pretend to be a spy and would covertly follow them, much to their amusement.

As a mother, it is very stressful running a B&B and a family and given a choice, I would not do it again.

[Richard51]

What about www.AirBnB.com (or is this too cutting edge for France ;) )?  Not aimed at commercial BnB's but for the average Jo wanting to offer a spare room in his house (with shared toilet if need be)...

Mrs R51

[Quillan]

Taking up on the point about breakfasts it is true that many CDH owners don't actually take breakfast with their guest's plus in some way's GDF and Co do contradict themselves because your supposed to have a table and chairs (chairs to match the occupancy of the room) so people can have breakfast in their own rooms. I don't think in that case they would take too kindly to you drawing up another chair and joining them. That said I have only had one couple ask for breakfast in their room in 10 years, only a couple of weeks back strangely enough. Most of the time I am around at breakfast although not always at the table (depends if there is a spare seat) having my morning coffee, clearing plates etc.

One thing that is difficult, but necessary, is to understand that a B&B as we (English) know it does not exist in France and that a CDH is quite a different beast. We do use the term B&B on our English website as we do Inn also for the Americans just to make it simple for them. There are certain aspects of running a CDH which you would never get away with in the UK if you were running a B&B and the opposite is also true.

Having children, because of the CDH ethos, will not be a problem with French guests providing you keep them quite at night when the guests are sleeping. The French like children and are far more used to interacting with them than we are (probably because we are more worried about being thought of as a pedophile these days but that's another story) so don't be worried if they chat and play with your kids.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Richard51"]What about www.AirBnB.com (or is this too cutting edge for France ;) )?  Not aimed at commercial BnB's but for the average Jo wanting to offer a spare room in his house (with shared toilet if need be)...

Mrs R51
[/quote]

I would advise against it then because a shared toilet for CDH guests is now illegal in France as is the toilet in the corner of the room with a curtain round it.