Changes to Pool Safety Regulations ...

[Existential2]

Folks

Richard has highlighted in the current thread "Pool fencing again" that following initial tests upon pool protection products that have been submitted by manufacturers for certification in accordance with the AFNOR norms, AFNOR have decided to take the "opportunity" of lessons learnt from the tests to "clarify or complete" certain provisions in the norms !

With 5 weeks to go to the 1st May deadline for installation in collective pools !!!

AFNOR have now further confirmed the above, having e-mailed those of us who were foolhardy enough to want to ensure we remained law abiding French residents, and who paid out the 80 or so for a set of the norms published in December, to advise us of the above and to offer to provide us with revised sets of norms (when available).

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The beginning of the AFNOR e-mail reads :

"AFNOR tient vous signaler que la Commission de normalisation a engag la rvision des quatre normes relatives aux quipements de protection des piscines prives.

En effet, la suite de la parution de ces normes en dcembre 2003, les fabricants ont confi leurs produits aux laboratoires pour effectuer des essais afin d'en vrifier la conformit. Les exprimentations ont rvl l'opportunit de prciser ou de complter certaines dispositions des normes.

Dans ce contexte, la Commission de normalisation a dcid d'engager aussitt une procdure de rvision de ces normes. Cette rvision concerne les quatre normes relatives aux barrires de protection, aux systmes d'alarmes, aux couvertures et aux abris de piscine.

Les amendements ces normes sont actuellement proposs l'enqute probatoire que vous pouvez consulter sur le site AFNOR http://www.afnor.fr Espace Normalisation, rubrique Avant-projets l'enqute probatoire, thme Sports et loisirs."

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So the good news is that anyone can now access (free of charge) the DRAFT norms through the above website.

The following link may work to take you straight to the section referred to above, from where you can download the latest draft norms :

http://www.afnor.fr/portail.asp?colfond=Bleu&ref=ESP%5FNormalisation&pref=PRT&lang=French

The bad news is that goodness knows when the norms will be finalised and whether this will be in time to certify products before they are supplied to us to meet the 1st May deadline !!!

The following link may work to take you straight to the website of the laboratory doing the testing, which lists those products tested and approved so far ... a big fat ZERO as at today's date - 5 weeks from implementation !!!!

http://www.lne.fr/fr/certification/liste_construction_habitat.shtml

In the meantime, I guess the best we can do is to ensure when placing any order with suppliers (e.g. of fencing or alarms) that they confirm the product has been submitted for testing, and that should it fail to meet the finalised AFNOR standards, they will either reimburse our money or (more usefully) provide us with a revised product that does actually meet the standards !!

The other good news may be that this may be an "opportunity" for AFNOR to change the following requirement in the draft norms for pool alarms :

"6.2 Exigences
6.2.1 Exigences gnrales (sensibilit, homognit de dtection)

Le dtecteur doit avoir le champ libre sur tout endroit o peut avoir lieu limmersion et ne jamais en tre loign de plus de 7 m."

Which I believe states that the alarm must be no more than 7 metres from any potential point of immersion in the pool (i.e. from the furthest corner of the pool).

If my schoolboy maths is right, even a 10mx5m pool with an alarm situated halfway up one side, will have 7.07m to the furthest corner.

For an 11mx5m pool the furthest corner will be 7.4m from the alarm.

For a 12mx5m pool 7.8m !!!!

Which would seem to suggest that worse case all pools of the above sizes would need 2 alarms !!

Or am I misinterpreting what the norms say and worrying about nothing ??? If so, please someone enlighten us !!

The only alternative I can see would be to install the detector on a "shelf" that enables the detector to go into the pool a little way from the side of the pool. By my calculations such a shelf would need to protrude into the pool by (for each of above measurements) : 10cm, 67cm, or 1.4M !!! And in any case, I guess such an installation might not meet various of the other requirements !!

Anyone help with the above ???

Or anyone in a position to advise whether AFNOR are alre

[Josettecooke]

further to your letter I am getting very worried about the fact that I cannot find a sensible answer to a simple question ie what can I use to fence my pool. I keep getting refered to saferpools, who I must say only seem to be there to line their own pockets. We have seen a very good fencing system called Axor, but have been told that it does not meet with AFNOR standards. The cheapest system that saferpools supplies is moveable and does not seem as strong as the Axor system it is so confusing. Have you any ideas? Or has anyone else that has a pool and has completed their fencing please please let me know what they have done.

Many thanks,

Josette.

[Existential2]

Folks

I've now received a reply from AFNOR re when they expect to publish the revised norms :

"La parution de cette norme est prvue pour dbut mai 2004.

Le problme est effectivement que si vous louez votre piscines, vous devez tre conforme pour le 1er mai 2004.

Pour obtenir plus d'informations sur l'application de la loi dans votre cas, nous vous suggrons de contacter le service "Info-Logement" du ministre de l'quipement au 01 40 81 96 17 ou au 01 40 81 91 86."

So they expect to issue the revised norms at the beginning of May - and have reaffirmed that we're expected to have conformed by 1st May. Great !!

Perhaps someone with better French than mine fancies phoning the numbers given ? Perhaps you should ask whether the French government has mastered the art of time travel - because that's the only way I can see we can have the precautions in place BEFORE we're told what they are !!

On the other hand a friend has just told me of a meeting of his local Gites de France he has just been to, when they were told not to do anything for the time being (must be a first for GdF !!) as the date for implementation is likely to be put back.

Nice consistency ... C'est la vie !!

Jean-Paul

[Nottelling]

Jean Paul i found the below on a site, it may qnswer your question,
Regards
Mike
IMPORTANT NOTE concerning safety standard NF P90-307
To avoid our clients encountering any compliancy problems concerning regulations within the new swimming pool safety standard, we should like to draw their attention to the following obligatory points as stipulated by the safety standard :
==>The detector unit must be placed so that the maximum distance between the detection unit and all possible zones of entry into the pool is less than 7m.
For example, if you place the unit in the middle of the pool surround, your pool must not be bigger than 50 M, or 10 m x 5 m or 8 m x 6m or 12 m x 4 m. Over and above these distances, it will be necessary to install two detector units.
==> in the case of a sloping ledge into the pool, the slope must be more than 30%.
Beyond a slope of 30%, the installation of an alarm is authorised, however the manufacturer advises you against this type of safety device as it loses its effectiveness.

[giles]

Just back from a visit to our house to meet a fence installer (for the local importer of Safer Pools); no mention was made of any upcoming changes in the norms, just a request for 100% of the purchase price on placing the order for a fence that does not go where we'd like it to run, because of the regs. Apparently a child could climb up some of our prickly and wobbly shrubbery to launch itself over the fence....ah, well.

Seriously, I suppose we shall have to provide safety instructions in the "house book" and possibly pictorial advice on artificial respiration (Does anyone know where these could be obtained - English version?) A Lifebelt would also be sensible, but at what stage can one expect parents to look out for their offspring?

There is a grey area in all this confusion. If your season's guests do not arrive until the school holidays, what is the status of the house in the mean time. If it counts as private, then no fence is required, at least until paying guests arrive, which gives a little leeway for installation. Also, what is the status of a house where personal friends (ie not memebers of one's immediate family) may be in (shared) residence. Does this make it necessary to comply? Looks like lawyers as well as pool contrcators will make a packet out of this mess.

Giles