Sand in pool

[Barbel Bob]

Hi,

We recently changed the sand in our filter due to a small amount of sand at the bottom of the pool each morning after being filtered overnight. When we changed the sand we checked each lateral to ensure they were not damaged. We also refilled the filter with sand being very careful not to damage them.

So my question is: Can there be any other reason for the sand at the bottom of my pool? other than damaged laterals.

It is an above ground pool.

Thanks again

J

[chrish]

 

Hi

Cant think of any other way the sand gets in the pool

It must be  from the filter, did you put gravel in the bottom or just sand??

try the vac to waste to get the sand away from the pool then see if the new sand does the same thing.

Chrish

ps should have upgraded to Zeolite not worth using sand these days

 

[gosub]

After doing a backwash, do you then do a rinse? after stopping the pump before each operation of course.

[The Ps]

Always rinse after backwashing. 

[The Ps]

[quote user="Barbel Bob"]Hi, We recently changed the sand in our filter due to a small amount of sand at the bottom of the pool each morning after being filtered overnight. When we changed the sand we checked each lateral to ensure they were not damaged. We also refilled the filter with sand being very careful not to damage them. So my question is: Can there be any other reason for the sand at the bottom of my pool? other than damaged laterals. It is an above ground pool. Thanks again J[/quote]

Did you half fill the chamber with water prior to pouring in the sand?   If not you can damage the laterals when pouring sand in.

Gravel should be used first as Chrish states.

Until zeolite, which is much better than sand, is cheaper than current prices, there will always be a demand for sand.   Sand does a job and I see many clean clear pools with sand filters.   However, people should consider lifetime costs and then you get a more favourable outcome for zeolite.   With sand it will have to be changed before zeolite and you will use more water and chemicals with sand than you would with zeolite.

 

[Barbel Bob]

Hi,

We used water before we filled with sand, but we checked all the laterals carefully before we refilled so am 100% sure they are not damaged.

We also did the rinse after the backwash.

We used a course sand at the bottom then finer at the top as recommended by the pool shop.

Can't think what it could be, its not a major problem as a quick hoover removes the sand so will continue with this until we

need to change again and will use zeolite if we can afford it.

Thanks to all!

J

[Poolguy]

Don't quite see the point of persevering with sand - its worthless so why keep it.

If your filter is giving you trouble then it makes sense to change what your doing. You’re clinging on to a pile of sand, which cost practically nothing and gives you the worst filtration rate of any media you could choose. It’s a struggle that doesn't make a lot of sense really. If you ' take the plunge' and change to Zeolite then you can ensure that the problem is solved in the process and enjoy the best filtration you can have all season and for 10 years into the future.

The cost of Zeolite is returned many times over in less chemical usage and water wastage from backwashing... the economics are a no brainier, but that’s really not the reason to change.

The real reason is the incredible water quality - and anyone who has made the change will testify to that.

Sand is a waste of money and unhealthy to boot.

Andrew

 

[chrish]

Hi Yes i agree with Andrew lets get rid of sand.

I tried to start a no sand policy on the TF forum but they said it was advertising.

Piscine-plus.com will no longer supply sand only Zeolite or AFM

Standard pools will have Zeolite FREE of charge, i hope other companies will join us.

chrish

[The Ps]

There are hundreds of thousands of pools throughout the world that are all functioning perfectly well with sand.   It is not worthless, it is all about degrees.   Not everyone can afford to 'take the plunge' initially because of the outlay to start with.   I made the point that the zeolite option is the cheapest on lifetime costs but that doesn't take away the pain for some people in the initial outlay so sand will provide an option and it may be the worst option but it functions; as hundreds of thousands of healthy pool owners will testify.   That adds a bit of sense to it, rightly or wrongly.

I would love to see everyone change to zeolite and the pools I install are all supplied with zeolite and only zeolite.   I may not quite be a 'zeolite zealot' but I sell the stuff and I also help customers with affordable solutions.   This is not to say no-one else does, merely that is spite of lifetime savings, some clients don't want to lay out the money in the first place because they are on a budget.   I will not walk away from such people when I can help them with alternatives.

I also sell the best I can.   Can you believe, there are people out there whom, it is reported to me, sell garden zeolite re-branded for pools.   I don't know if that is correct or not but if so, it is not right in my opinion.   I didn't even know garden zeolite existed but there are 149 different types of zeolite out there, most of which are artificially produced with the rest being mined.   Some of these are carcinogenic and not allowed near any usage that could result in ill health.   Only two zeolites are approved for use in pools though they are available under several brand names, most of which are produced by a UK company, BZc (British Zeolite Company).   They supply 7 different brands and own label product to the French market.

 

[Poolguy]

Thanks Chris for proposing what is a most wholesome and helpful campaign.

Zeolite not sand.....

For John

Lets get some perspective here.

A pool.... what so ever its made of or by whom, is an investment of between €15k up to say €50k or even more most of which is spend on materials and construction most of which has nothing to do with water quality.

You do not swim in those things... you swim in the water, that is what gives the pleasure and what will give you problems or infections if it is not the best it can be.

Now if you use Zeolite in the filter its an investment of less than 3% down to 1% of the total cost of the pool, and it lasts for 10 years ..... now really!

To get the water that you swim in up to a good standard for 1-3% of the budget is not unreasonable. The problem is not pool owners, as they do not know the facts and by an large, they are looking for guidance, the problem is pool builders and promoters. Because if water quality is presented by a pool company first (who should know the difference) and the budget fixed and 'ringfenced' and only after that things like terraces and fancy fittings are factored in then water quality wins and there is no need to 'afford' it- as its not a luxury, but a necessity. I do not accept your statement that the thousands of pools country wide have been operating acceptably - as chemical analysis I have done (and will continue to do) proves that they are not, due to in part an excess or ammonia present in the water which is not dealt with by sand but is extracted by Zeolite.

Now John: Please be careful what you are saying when you quote your British supplier of Zeolite (South African origin)  as we've heard this nonsense before and its not correct - there is no such thing as 'garden Zeolite', it can be used in many different forms and there has never been any evidence that any Zeolite has been linked to cancer - this is plain false (show me any evidence if you have them). They (your supplier) are not the only supplier of Zeolite (approved for use) world wide, as we outsell them many times over and have done so for over a decade. So please confine your comments generically or be prepare to stump up the evidence of independent laboratory studies, as it does not augur well for the future.

Andrew

[The Ps]

Hold the horses here!

I always install pools with zeolite as it is a small percentage of the overall cost but I thought we were referring to existing pool owners.   Neither am I disputing the superiority of zeolite.

With regard to garden zeolite and some zeolites being carcinogenic, I have only typed what I heard though that was from BZc (who are a UK company that own a mine in South Africa).   Like I said, I don't know if it true or not.

With regard to confining my comments I see no issue in anything I have said and would defend the right to free speech regardless of any bullying tactics.   I have stated that where I am not sure of something I don't know what is true or not and I am entitled to offer an opinion. 

With regard to stumping up evidence on anything, it really is not that important to me.   How many times throughout this forum on any subject to you get people saying they have heard this or that and then some-one normally offers guidance...........only not so aggressively.

You know what Andrew, I am sick and tired of all of the ridiculous pontificating that goes on in the forums from so many people.   I have always tried to contribute to debates to help people or to find out information myself.   I will never, ever post on here again (that'll make your day; corner the market a bit more).   I am certain you will post a response but don't expect to hear from me again.

 

[chem geek]

[quote user="Poolguy"]

I do not accept your statement that the thousands of pools country wide have been operating acceptably - as chemical analysis I have done (and will continue to do) proves that they are not, due to in part an excess or ammonia present in the water which is not dealt with by sand but is extracted by Zeolite.

[/quote]

Andrew,

If you want to claim from the small sample of pools that it appears that there is a lower amount of monochloramine in pools using zeolite, then that is one thing (though one pool measured high even with zeolite), but if you measured any Free Chlorine (FC) in the pool then do not claim your results measured ammonia.  As Palintest will tell you (I suggest you call them if you have not already) your testing for ammonia was interfered with monochloramine -- the test you were using tests both monochloramine and ammonia combined.  It was designed to measure ammonia in unchlorinated water, not in pools with chlorine.

Next time you measure a pool with your test, try measuring also the Combined Chlorine (CC) with a FAS-DPD chlorine test (for accuracy) in addition to your "ammonia" test.

I have a cartridge filter in a 16,000 gallon pool used daily by 1 person for 1-2 hours and on weekends by 2 people for around 2 hours and I frequently measure both Free Chlorine (FC) and Combined Chlorine (CC) with the latter always being less than 0.4 ppm and usually being less than 0.2 ppm (the lowest measurable in the FAS-DPD test I use).  This is typical for most outdoor residential pools.  I would assume that the pools you are measuring have high bather load or are indoor or much smaller pools in order to have such high CC which your ammonia test picked up (unless the FC was zero in which case the pool is not properly maintained).

Richard