Pool problem

[londoneye]

Hi

Long time since I have been on here - hope all the 'regulars' are keeping well.

I have a couple of problems with my swimming pool, which to date has behaved reasonably well actually !

Firstly, total chlore level seems very high (2.5 ppm) (free chlore is around 2 ppm) and as I have never had this problem before not sure what to do. I am using easy pool tablets (from waterair), if that helps. I THINK what I need to do is to take out the tablets and add free chlorine (shock I guess) - is this correct please ?

Also, in last couple of days the pool steps have started to turn yellow (fibre-glass steps). The steps were actually a bit yellow last year when we opened the pool, but then they just cleared themselves. This year they were fine when we opened the pool but now they are turning yellow.

Can anyone help?

Oh, sorry, pH is 7.0, total alkalinity is 80

[Poolguy]

Londoneye

Thanks for giving us the right info (almost) straight up without have to ask for it - it makes a nice change.

Total chlor - free chlor = combined chlor (roughly speaking -chloramines) so 0.5ppm therefore is not clever but nothing to get in a flap about, certainly I would have to recommend that you forget about Waterair treatment - its a proprietary treatment which has a lot of other stuff in it and certainly its making a difference to over all chemical levels. Please send the levels of Cyanuric acid (stabiliser) as I would not mind betting that it is too high (must be below 50ppm). Treat you pool with Javel for the time being so that you can get a better idea of the consequences without adding to TDS. (anyone mystified and confused by these terms - see the Glossary at www.pooguy.fr in the knowledge base)

In other news your pH is a bit low (prefer it up2 points) and so is your TA (80 is the lowest you should go) so add Bi carb to get it up to 150ppm and that'll fix the both, If yours is a 10 x 5, then that'll be about 3 kgs of Bi Carb.

'Yellow steps', interesting, decorative, is its meant to be there or has some one been using an excess of sunscreen which has stained the water line - a pic would help, otherwise, we are guessing without prayer.

Andrew

 

[londoneye]

Hi Poolguy

Nice to see you are still around, and still helping out !!

cyanuric acid is 30 ppm.

No-one has been in the pool so no sunscreen.

Normally I keep the Ph at 7.00 because my waterair brochure says that if the pool has steps it must be kept at the lowest value.

regarding using Javel, it makes me slightly nervous because I have never used it before (well not in the pool anyway !). Our pool is 33 cu meters. I guess I would take out the tablets and put the Javel in ?? How much are we talking about here ???!!

Will try to take picture of the steps and post, but basically instead of being a lovely sparkling white, they are now yellowish with a few white blotches on .... I am wondering if this has something to do with the pH or not, and that is why waterair say if you have steps keep the pH at the lowest end of the scale (last year I kept it at about 6.8 actually !)

Thanks again, and hopefully you will have a minute to get back to me on above.

[allanb]

[quote user="Poolguy"]see the Glossary at www.pooguy.fr in the knowledge base) [/quote]

I do hope that's a typographical error.

[londoneye]

hmmmmmmm - me too !

[Théière]

Londoneye, you feel nervous using javel, a known source of good chlorine and nothing else but you are prepared to add god knows what because Waterair slap their label on it.

with your PH at 7 the chlorine you add will have maximum killing effect. You should run your pool at around 3ppm of chlorine to offset the CYA and 12ppm as a shock level.

The yellow stain could be yellow algae or metal staining, usually iron, are you using well water? It maybe worth you putting some vitamin C tablets on the stain to see if it  fades the stain.

I differ from Andrew as we often might, I would not be over concerned with your TA 70-90 is fine for liner pools a bit higher for concrete/plaster/tile, not really a problem unless your PH is not stable.

Does the PH cause you any problems with sore eyes?

[londoneye]

Hi Theiere (sorry about lack of accents!)

Actually I have just emailed waterair about the yellow steps and they say normally it is an inbalance in the alkalinity and that I should add easy minus until the steps clear, then deal with the pH after. Actually this sort of makes sense to me because last year when we opened the pool and the steps were yellow it was quite green, especially around the steps area, so I guess again the algae would affect the alkalinity and thus the colour of the steps.

Does this make sense to you ?

Yes, of course I take your point on Javel, perhaps the fear factor is more to do with the fact that I have no idea how much to use, whereas, of course commercial products come 'dosed'. How much javel do I need to use - still unclear on this point !

Thanks

[Théière]

[quote user="londoneye"]Hi Theiere (sorry about lack of accents!) Actually I have just emailed waterair about the yellow steps and they say normally it is an inbalance in the alkalinity and that I should add easy minus until the steps clear, then deal with the pH after. Actually this sort of makes sense to me because last year when we opened the pool and the steps were yellow it was quite green, especially around the steps area, so I guess again the algae would affect the alkalinity and thus the colour of the steps. Does this make sense to you ?

No, not one bit. The bit that does make sense is they happen to have a product "Easy minus" in this case that will put it all right. The fastest thing in a swimming pool that kills algae is chlorine Period! that is all you need. Easy minus (correct me if I am wrong) is pool acid and will reduce your PH even further and that you do not want.  Of course then they will sell you Easy plus to correct that problem (bicarbonate of soda, baking powder or soda ash) Ask for a copy of the MSDS (material safety data sheet) which by law they must provide if asked, that will tell us exactly what is in it.

 Yes, of course I take your point on Javel, perhaps the fear factor is more to do with the fact that I have no idea how much to use, whereas, of course commercial products come 'dosed'. How much javel do I need to use - still unclear on this point ! Thanks[/quote]

All pools are slightly different so keep a log of how much you add and the effect on the chlorine level.  As posted above you need to shock the pool and keep it shocked by regular additions of chlorine (bleach or otherwise) maybe as often as every twelve hours to keep the free chlorine level around 12ppm. Brush the walls and wait for the algae to die. I can give you an idea of how much to add if you tell me how big the pool is in m3.

Be quick as I am travelling to France early Wednesday morning. 

[londoneye]

Hi

Thanks.

Slight misunderstanding - the pool was not green this year when we opened it was green last year.

The size of the pool is 33 c

m3

[Poolguy]

John me Ol chum (Théière)

We have another poor unfortunate who has been led up the path to poverty by a big pool companies.

Despite yours and my best efforts to extol the virtues of understanding the most basic water chemistry, there are those who still will place their faith and their hard earned cash to the greedy hands of those .....;;;!

Much as the Lehman Brs and now Goldman Sacks have been grabbing, greasing and lying for years to make as much profit no matter what are the consequences so too we in the pool industry have Waterair, Magiline and Desjoyeau.... what a bunch they all are. We can both see that poor Londoneye has a deposit problem, organic or mineral - even blind Freddie can see that. So to advise him adding even more Minus to and already almost acid pool - (God in heaven give me strength) makes them rather Negligent I should say rather than just congenitally stupid.

So Londoneye, I can endorse what John has to say, first do some test to identify the deposit, is it slippery, can you scratch it off, cut a lemon or an orange and rub on it, etc

Then we'll tell you how to rid yourself of this problem. But if you are determined to impoverish yourself then there is always Waterair who will be grateful for your visit and certainly have something equally banal to advise you each situation you describe.

33m3 pool eats a bit less than 1 litre of Javel per day just from sunshine, to shock from 0ppm to 10ppm is 10 litres (around about), but the Javel must be within 3 months of manufacture at 9.6% active. All the above depends on a CYS of 50ppm and TAC of 120PPM and pH of 7.2, if these are not so then the above does not apply.

It must be the Sun getting to me folks.

Andrew

 

 

[londoneye]

Hi Poolguy

Sorry - hope I haven't offended you. The concern I have is about leaping into the unknown as opposed to using a product which has, until now, worked well for me.

I really do believe you know you stuff, and I will try to bring myself to forego the chemicals and carry out your suggestions. I've always been a bit nervous about the pool and 'controlling' the beast (!)

Thanks again to both of you for your help.

[londoneye]

Ok - the stain. Tried your suggestions (thanks again) can't seem to rub it off or brush it off but small section of lemon rubbed on part of stain takes it back to sparkling white immediately - so, do I wholesale invest in lemons at this point (!) or is there a slightly easier way to tackle this ????

[Poolguy]

Londoneye

Firstly sorry to such a grump,  got a bit much sun yesterday, so I was not my usual chirpy self.

I was defiantly not having a go at you, but the contrary, its the Pool companies which offend me and do so frequently that its hard to stay optimistic some times. They take too much money from the uninformed pool customer for advice and products, which are poor at best, if not down right wrong- it drives me mad. The worst thing is that so many people keep going back despite being fleeced time and again.

So now to your problem. Curious!

The test you've undertaken proves that the deposit can be dissolved by ascorbic acid (lemon juice), which could be (but its not certain)- a metal plating out such as Iron Oxide now that could be any one of the 3 oxides of iron (normally the stain is kind of brown) and I'm afraid that the treatment for each is different and there is no way to tell which till you try. The first and second oxide of Iron can be treated either with ZEOLITE in the filter or a sequestering agent specific to the oxide. The third oxide is much more difficult and we must use a technical visit to undergo the testing and remedial work.

If that is the case, then you'll need to also look at the origin of the problem, which will be in your source water. If it tests to have greater than 0.1ppm Fe then you'll be certain that the problem will return from time to time. That is unless you switch to using rainwater in your pool which is sure to will not have any minerals to cause this problem.

To lighten the stain temporarily you can drop the pH (say to 6 or below, but only temporarily, and defiantly do not let anyone use the pool during this treatment) but that only brings the Iron Oxide into solution and it will plate out again if your pH goes up or beyond 7.7

You can tackle it on your own or ask for technical intervention, as you like.

 

Andrew

 

[londoneye]

Hi Poolguy

many thanks - I will try dropping the pH temporarily first and see what happens.

I haven't used any javel yet (bought some though !) as I wanted to sort out the problem with the steps first, or am I doing this the wrong way around. Should I sort out the too much total chlorine first and then then steps after, or is it immaterial which way.

I can understand your frustration, of course I feel it too when I pay through the nose for pool chemicals which ultimately do not add to the quality of the water. I suppose I shall have to start trying to understand the basics of the pool chemistry, which seem quite daunting, but are probably not if I put my mind to it; hopefully I won't then have to keep asking you daft questions !

[Thebiga]

Where could you purchase something like 3kg of Bi Carb please.

Cheers

[Poolguy]

[quote user="Thebiga"]Where could you purchase something like 3kg of Bi Carb please. Cheers[/quote]

You could PM me and I'll give you details.

Andrew