Re-registering with CPAM

[trémargatois]

Sorry to hear of your less helpful reception.  The woman we spoke to did admit, when we asked her, that all this uncertainty and short notice rule changing was making everyones life difficult.  All my French friends and neighbours are sympathetic to our difficulties, even to the extent of offering to "adopt" us like refugees!  Many of them are struggling to make ends meet themselves in a poor rural area and appreciate the contribution ex-pats make to the economy.  Everyone was horrified that our problems might make us return to England as we are regarded as locals now.

Income from Jan and Feb 2006 will be counted for CMU cotisations, assuming we're allowed in!  A good explanation of this is at: 

http://www.ameli.fr/assures/soins-et-remboursements/c.m.u.-et-complementaires-sante/c.m.u.-de-base-une-assurance-maladie-pour-tous/cotisation-et-prise-en-charge-de-vos-soins.php

[londoneye]

Thanks for that.

I don't blame the woman, if I had been in her shoes I would have felt exactly as frustrated as she probably does.

[londoneye]

Oh dear, Ive just looked at the site.

Essentially, because of a large(ish) one-off payment, before I moved to France (and well spent now !) I now have to pay more to CMU than I would have to pay for  very good private health insurance.

Would my payments be taken from the sum earned (loosely speaking) after tax, or before?

[Clair]

http://www.urssaf.fr/profil/particuliers/beneficiaire_de_la_cmu/vous_-_vos_cotisations/infos_pratiques_02.html#OG17861

[quote]

La cotisation de la CMU de base
		Base de calcul
Lors de la demande de CMU de base, vous devez remplir une déclaration de ressources et joindre les pièces justificatives.
Chaque année, vous devez communiquer le montant de vos ressources auprès de la Caisse primaire d’assurance maladie (CPAM).
Si vous ne remplissez pas les conditions d’exonération, la CPAM calcule la cotisation en fonction de votre revenu fiscal de référence se trouvant sur votre avis d’imposition.
		Taux de la cotisation CMU de base
Le taux applicable est de 8% des revenus perçus au cours de l’année précédente dépassant le plafond de 8644 euros.
		Versement
La cotisation est annuelle pour la période du 1er octobre au 30 septembre de l’année suivante. Vous versez un quart de cette cotisation à la fin de chaque trimestre civil auprès de l’Urssaf du lieu de votre domicile.

[/quote]

[londoneye]

Yes, thank you Clair.   I feel really stupid about this, because when I declared tax last year (earnings on savings basically), the woman in tax office said it was only from the time we had arrived in France which we had to declare income, so I wasn't expecting the earnings in Jan/Feb 2006 plus the lump sum to be taken into account for the CMU calculation.   No excuses for poor research, except that we had expected to start a business this year so had not expected to be in position of even considering the application.   Next year we will have business up and running so it won't be an issue.

Still, I am going to be much better off just not returning to CPAM office it seems, and taking out low cover PHI for a year.   Seems a bit immoral, even to me, to be honest, and I am fully aware its my own fault, but I simply cannot afford to pay what the calculation will come out to.     

[trémargatois]

As a newbie and amateur I don't want to wander out of my depth....but if the CPAM calculate the contribution on the "revenu fiscal de référence" any income earned and taxed in the UK prior to becoming French tax resident should not count??? 

I apologise, in advance if this is an optimistic view.  My own case was simpler because having relocated in December 2005 I have a full year for tax purposes in France for 2006.

[Will]

It is an optimistic view unfortunately. In most cases, people in that situation will arrive in France with E106 forms, and by the time the E106 cover runs out they will be fully in the French tax system with proof of income in a form that other French officials can recognise - i.e. avis d'imposition for the previous year. It is when people don't have that document, for whatever reason, that the problems arise. Then, the CPAM will want other proof of your income, which may be foreign tax returns, bank statements, or whatever. Whether or not you have paid tax on it already is irrelevant, it's the income that they want to know. So if you have been a high earner before early retirement, or have received bonuses, or even a redundancy payment, it can result in an unrealistically high assessment for CPAM contributions.

But spare a thought for the self-employed who have to pay 45% or more in cotisations - perhaps your 8% is not that bad.

 

[trémargatois]

Thanks for that Will.  I certainly feel that 8% is a bargain by anyones standards, especially on my modest income and thank heavens that I was lucky enough (it certainly wasn't skill!) to time my arrival when I did. 

[londoneye]

But I do have the documents, ie the avis d'imposition from last year, which doesn't include by earnings in UK because I was told it was not necessary to include it (by the tax office), and therefore I would consider myself fully in the French tax system!

[suein56]

[quote user="londoneye"]But I do have the documents, ie the avis d'imposition from last year, which doesn't include by earnings in UK because I was told it was not necessary to include it (by the tax office), and therefore I would consider myself fully in the French tax system!

[/quote]

CPAM use the previous whole year's income to calculate what charges you should pay in the current year. So whilst we became resident in France on 1st July 2005, for calculating income for CPAM purposes the whole of the year 2004 was used - when we were still living in the UK.

Sue

[Glyn]

[quote user="Will"]

But spare a thought for the self-employed who have to pay 45% or more in cotisations - perhaps your 8% is not that bad.

[/quote]

Whilst the figure of 45% for self-employed cotisations is correct, it is really unfair to compare this with the 8% for CMU membership, as self employed cotisations cover a lot more than just the healthcare which someone paying into the CMU would get.

• 23% pension

• 1.5% Invalidity & Death

• 5.4% Family Allowances

The figure also includes CSG/CRDS which everybody with any sort of income would also have to pay.

The self-employed cotisation for health cover is likely to be much nearer the 8% CMU contribution than many people would like to admit.

I know that in total the self employed cotisations are a lot but please compare like for like.