E106 eligibility etc.

[Gwenhwyfar]

We are moving to France mid September. My husband has paid up NI Contributions for the last 20yrs but I'm self employed and have been claiming exemption for low earnings.

He will be resigning when we move but I had planned to carry on working but how does that effect the 106? I could stop working until I am registered self employed in France if it will make our lives easier with the 106?

Jennifer

[Will]

LAST EDITED ON 20-Aug-04 AT 02:33 PM (BST)

I'm no expert but have some experience of E forms.

I think you should get an E106 OK if the NI contribution record is good. Europe and UK treat people on an individual basis so the fact that you have recently had relief from NI contributions should not have a bearing on your husband getting an E form or not. It is EU rules that apply to E forms, not French rules or British rules, but the host country (i.e. France) has to consent to you getting access to its system through the E form system, at least after an initial period.

Under the French system couples are, as a rule, regarded jointly for things like taxation and health benefits. This means, in most cases, that if one partner has their own entitlement to health benefits and the other hasn't, then both can get those benefits.

However, if both work, or if one is working and the other has entitlement through an E form, our experience has been that you are treated separately for health and social security. So it may be to your advantage to delay registering in France or to claim exemption from registration and cotisations through low earnings.

Alternatively, if you are not sure that your move to France will be permanent, you may be able get an E form which will let you continue to pay (or presumably get relief from) UK NI contributions as a 'migrant worker'. This can last for up to two years before you have to enter the French system.

Do speak to the NI people at Newcastle to see what E form you are entitled to. It may unfortunately prove to be a bit of a lottery because different individuals at Newcastle seem to work to different guidelines - but you may be able to use this to your advantage and keep asking until you get the answer you want.

Will (50)
Forum moderator

[Moorejw]

Your entitlement to the E106 is based on the previous two full tax-years contributions, so hubby should be OK. You can be covered by his contributions in France and it is worth obtaining a letter from Newcastle stating that you are not entitled to an E106 on your contribution history. This just makes it easier to get the CPAM to include you on your hubby's Carte Vitale. This worked for us and by the time our two year's entitlement to health cover via CPAM was up I was registered and working (P.S. Hubby is still included on my Carte Vitale as he is not employed as he is renovating).

Good luck!

John and Angie Moore (17)

[Penny29]

Hi,

It might be worth mentioning the following:

1. E106's are issued on a calender year basis i.e. January - December for a maximum of two years. This means that if you tell Newcastle you are moving out from September you will only get 14 months cover whereas if you tell them that you are "officially" moving out in January 2005 you will get the max 24 months cover.

You may well decide that it is worth taking the risk of relying on E111's for your first 3 1/2 months here. This is a risk only you can decide on whether to take or not - technically you should have proper French health cover from the moment you decide to be resident here. You also need to weigh up the costs should either of you need serious but non-emergency healthcare in France before January 2005.

Much depends on whether you are renting for the initial period - if you are, then in my opinion, your first 89 days here are very much a "holiday-cum-making-your-mind-up time" and so the E111 is definitely more applicable than the E106.

2. Secondly, the years on which your NI records will be checked are for the last two closed tax years BEFORE the year in which your E106 is issued. This is unnecessarily complicated merely because (stupidly) in the UK the "benefit years" (such as E106) run January - Dec but eligibility is based on NI records for tax years April 6th - April 5th!

I'll try to explain!

Say you tell Newcastle that you are moving to France in Sept 2004. The E106 will run Sept 2004 - Dec 31st 2005 BUT theoretically this E106 started in January 2004 (although you don't use it until the Sept) - therefore the NI records checked will be for the last two COMPLETED tax years before January 2004 i.e. April 6th 2002 - April 5th 2003 and April 2001 - April 2002.

But if you tell Newcastle you are moving out from January 2005 then different tax years apply - the E106 will be issued in 2005 and so the last two completed tax years taken into a/c will be April 2003 - April 2004 and 2002/03.

3. As you have rightly guessed the years you claimed SEE (Small Earnings Exemption) will show up as blanks on your NI record & can't be counted towards your individual E106 but as others have said below you will be able to attach to your husband's E106.

Penny

[I1]

When you get your E106, check everything very carefully. I went to register with mine and CPAM declined it as Newcastle had made a typo stating that cover STARTED on 1/Jan/2005. Thus, as I cannot register with CPAM, I cannot get a Social Security number and thus cannot take out top-up insurance (as I have nothing to top-up). CPAM were very helpful, saying I should use my E111 in the meantime whilst Newcastle get things sorted. Also, I requested my E106 whilst still in the UK (before moving). Thus the E106 came through with my old/previous UK address (as it took quite some time to come through). CPAM were not too happy about the wrong address (as the form states that it should be the address in the foreign country you are resident in (i.e. France), though I think it was the start date next year that caused the problem and that the address alone would not have been too much of an issue.

It also now looks like, as I cannot get top-up insurance, my "financial exposure" is possibly going to cost me quite a lot of money.

Good luck.

[Dreamers]

[quote]We are moving to France mid September. My husband has paid up NI Contributions for the last 20yrs but I'm self employed and have been claiming exemption for low earnings. He will be resigning when...[/quote]

For info, my wife and I left the UK in Sept.2003 and went initially to Spain and then finished up here in France. We were both given E106 forms that were valid from the Sept.2003  until Dec.2005. So they are quite 'flexible' over this and appear very fair if they know all of the circumstances and the necessary payments have been made into the UK system. We now have our 'Cartes Vitale' , which arrived very quickly after application was made by us.

[Teamedup]

"It also now looks like, as I cannot get top-up insurance, my "financial exposure" is possibly going to cost me quite a lot of money."

 

I1, why can't you get a mutuel insurance. There are fixed rates for this,  depending on age. I do understand that if the CPAM won't cover you then you wouldn't be able to get a mutualist, but as you are entitled to a proper E106, then you should be able to sort all this out.

[I1]

I could take out 100% insurance but I guess it would cost quite a bit more than the "top-up" for the CPAM cover. I am entitled to a proper E106 and am trying to get things sorted but Newcastle don't seem particularly quick (I've actually already had two E106's and now need a 3rd) - nothing complex about my case.

I'm sure it can all be sorted out it just seems to take time.

People say that France is "all paperwork" but my limited experience is that things do get done. At the CPAM offices I had to wait all of 5 minutes to be seen. Person dealing with me had no idea what to do so went off, talked to others, came back 5 mins later and went through the issues. Needed to see a doctor - immediate appointment. Same again a week later, same day. Last time I wanted to see my GP in the UK (several years ago and before moving), I was told they were booked up for at least 2 weeks (so I didn't bother).

[Owen]

Hello Jennifer,

I would not bring your own employment circumstances into the E106 equation at all. It can only complicate matters and in my view you are in no way acting improperly by not volunteering this information. Your husband should apply for E106 naming you as a dependant; it is as simple as that. I disagree with Moorejw that you should try and obtain a letter of refusal of E106. I do not see that it would serve any purpose whatsoever in your circumstances, which strike me as being somewhat different to those of Moorejw.

Regards

Peter Owen

[email protected]

[I1]

My E106 has a section where they mark your employment "status" (Employed person, Self-employed, etc.)  There is no box for unemployed, not working, nor anything related (e.g. paying voluntary calss 3 contributions).  Also no "other" option.  Although I requested my E106 whilst still employed, my intention was to stop working (though I was not particularly successful at that so actually remain employed).

When I visited CPAM, I told them I was still employed by a UK company and paying UK National Insurance.  Initial reaction was "er.....", but other issues "took over" and that aspect was ignored.

[Owen]

Hello Junior Member,

Why on earth did you tell CPAM that you were still paying NI contributions in the UK? It cannot possibly have been any assistance (to you) whatsoever. You NEVER volunteer information to officials. If you had E106, proof of residence and supporting documentation then that should be enough. If CPAM ask for further info: then fine provide it. Hopefully things will now go smoothly but you took a great risk of being sent packing to obtain another E Form to effect your affiliation.

Regards

Peter Owen

[email protected]