Snakes!

[londoneye]

I quite like them myself but other half is less than keen to say least.    He claims to have seen a very large snake in our field - well over a metre long and around 2" thick.   Went to have a good look but couldnt find it myself.    Suspect fear may have enlarged its size somewhat in his imagination (!!!).   But now have very young puppy to keep cat company (heh heh they hate each other) and wondered if anyone knows whether there are poisonous snakes in area of Haute Vienne at all?   Or poisonous enough to do small puppy and/or cat damage ?    I do hope not or i can see that i will be marched into the field to catch it  some time soon!

any replies appreciated - aha - additional information  is that it may have been 'greenish' (clearly he wasnt hanging around for a good look!)

 

[chris pp]

http://www.planetepassion.com   snakes in France.

At that size in 87 it's either a grass snake or a western whip snake, if you are not near water it's probably the later, not dangerous.

Asp viper is the only poisonous snake in 87, have a look at my site above.

Chris

 

[Val_2]

Here in Brittany we have many adders and a local viper which are both venomous and give a nasty bite,possibly fatal to the old and the very young or persons with heart conditions. Always wear gloves when gardening in overgrown areas and stout shoes and boots and also when walking in bracken or gorse. My friend's Jack Russell was bit on the snout by an adder on the tarmac road outside her house and would have died if she hadn't found him quickly and straight to the vet who fought for several days to save the dog thankfully. If you do get bitten, keep still and if possible get someone to call the sapeurs or an ambulance so that the anti-venom can be introduced asap.

[chris pp]

Good advice about clothing, but I beg to differ a bit about the bites, although as you will have seen on my web site I do say where animals are concerned "contact you vet without delay".

Quite a large number of dogs and cats get bitten by either the common adder that you have in the north or by the asp viper elsewhere and this is almost never fatal even when no treatment is given, which is not a course of action that I am recommending!!!

We have had both one of our cats and one of our dogs bitten, both were fine within 48 hours. The problem with cats and dogs is that they will go after anything that moves, or go and sniff it, sort of invites a reaction really.

Chris

[Deimos]

Not particularly relevant to your snake nor people posts in response) but one think I have noticed in France is that, if you ask a local “what sort of snake it was”, then you will invariably be told it’s a viper.  A length of hose pipe lying on the ground is “a viper”.  Whenever I’ve described a snake I’ve seen to any local I’ve always got the “viper” with an added “dangerous” response.

 

Ian

[londoneye]

ha - made me laugh - when young i was with my somewhat hysterical sister in pretty much unchartered territory (at that time) in thailand and she thought we had snake in room - and it had bitten her - ran out to wake up whole village (lord knows why really cos it would have been two days to get to mainland!) - all locals helpfully rushed into our hut (it was middle of night) only to find the supposed snake which had bitten my sister was indeed a section of rubber hosing in corner of room!   so, been there done that one - only thankful i knew no thai so couldnt understand what they were saying about us !!

[Cassis]

So was it you who bit her or the hose?  They can be pretty damn vicious, look out for the yellow ones.  They grow up to 30 metres long - scary.

[Kitty]

Asleep on a Greek island beach in the middle of the night (that was what we used to do when we were students - it saved on hostel rates), I espied a curled up poisonous & dangerous pit viper.  I nudged my friend and we inched away to safety, hearts a-beating.  It remained there all night until day break, when we discovered it was a water melon seed necklace that I has made the previous day...

[Kitty]

If You Are Bitten By A Snake

1. If the snake is still in the area, do not attempt to kill or catch it, unless it poses a danger to you or the victim. Try to remember what it looks like so you can identify the type of snake from pictures in the emergency room. 
2. Remove all items that may restrict circulation in the affected extremity:  watches, bracelets, rings, gloves, or shoes may pose a problem as the bite area swells. 
3. Immobilize the affected area as much as possible. Attempt to keep the bite at or slightly below the level of the head. 
4. If swelling occurs rapidly, place a 1-inch-wide constricting band about 2 inches above the bite. This is not a tourniquet and should not fit so tightly you cannot easily slip a finger under it. Do not place a constricting band on a joint. 
5. Attempt to keep the victim from moving rapidly about while transporting him/her to the nearest emergency medical facility as quickly as possible. 
6. Note: 

a. Do not give the victim anything to eat or drink, particularly alcohol;
b. Do not place the affected area in ice;
c. Do not make any cuts or apply suction to the area;
d. Do not attempt to give antivenom; or
e. Do not administer pain or anti-anxiety medications 

[Deimos]

[quote user="Cassis"]So was it you who bit her or the hose?  They can be pretty damn vicious, look out for the yellow ones.  They grow up to 30 metres long - scary.
[/quote]

Through use of clever adaptors two of mine have joined together end-to end so I’ve one somewhere around my place that’s close on 60’.  I’ve put up a nice bracket on a wall for it which it loves and spends most of its time there, wrapped in a coil handing against the wall.  Amazing thing is I’ve never seen it eat (though when its bladder gets full, boy can it create “puddles”).

Ian

[chris pp]

Thanks Cathy, there's conflicting advice about the restricting band, but no matter.

The thing about identifying the snake is really a bit unnecessary in France, there really are only two serious possibilities and in most areas that is reduced to one.

I understand the difficulty though, last year an English man was the unfortunate recipient of an Asp viper bite nearby and went to Ruffec hospital, where they said they couldn't give any treatment because they didn't know what the snake was - IT COULD ONLY HAVE BEEN ONE TYPE OF SNAKE!    They then sent him to Poitiers (50k) because they didn't have any anti venom anyway. So, apart from a lot of pain, he was fine, if a little concerned about the education for hospital staff.

Chris

 

[Kitty]

Hi Chris

Could you help? I have a home file on snakes (including a print out of all your info with much gratitude [:)]) and it would be useful to get things right. With four children and snakes all around us (miles and miles of forests in 33), I have the file for quick reference just in case.  (An astrologer will tell you that it is because I am a Virgo and I am too organised... [;-)])

1. What is the conflicting advice on the restricting band?

2. When you say there are two serious possibilites - which ones are they (asp viper? common adder? Orsini's viper? makes three?) and are the anti venoms very different?

3. What happens when a non poisonous snake, a grass snake for example, bites you [:(]?

Cathy

[chris pp]

Well Cathy,  if it's any help I'm a Scorpio, big time.

First, where you live, 33, there is only the Asp Viper that is venomous. Whether there is much, if any, difference in the Anti venom for these vipers, I don't know, but given that only the one snake is venomous where you are, exactly the same as here, that should be all one needs to know hence the bit about Ruffec hospital.

The restrictive band depends on who you listen to, it's as simple as that, but the important thing which you made clear was that it must not be tight.

It is highly unlikely that a grass snake will bite you, if they do 'strike' at you it is with mouth closed, some of the others may "bite" but as they only have "chewing" teeth and no fangs nothing will happen of any consequence, less than shutting your finger in a door, much the same as the Lézard ocellé which you have in 33 which will also bite if handled incorrectly.

It really needs to be remembered that only "half" a person a year or there abouts actually dies from snake bite in France, so it really does rate rather low in things that are dangerous. The vast majority of kids manage to reach adulthood without serious injuries on the way, I have five and they all made it in one piece, much to the surprise of my first wife.

Chris

 

[Kitty]

Good advice Chris - thanks.

I have been cirumspect ever since I found that I am allergic to wasp stings - big time.  I was stung and after anaphylactic shock (and an extremely lucky break with a doctor nearby), had a spell in Dinan hospital.  For the last four years, I've been undergoing immunisation treatment but who knows?  I haven't been stung again and I am not going to try to be...

[daryl-et-elaine]

Can I add the following to the above post left by Cathy at 16:18;

1 above. The snake that bites will be off like a shot. The snake that gets clobbered with a brick is unlikely to be the suspected envenomator. However, even a severed head can inflict a bite.

In the middle east, Bedouin will allow a snake to go unhindered, but smash a scorpion into a thousand pieces. The scorpion poses a threat - the snake is no threat!

3 above. The affected limb should be immobilised and kept below heart level.

4 above. Simply cover the bite area with a dressing. The venom of snakes of the viper family can cause a lot of local swelling.

The application of "constricting bands" should read the application of a 4 inch wide crepe bandage applied as firmly as you would for a sprained ankle. It should be applied from the joint below the bite site, up the limb to the next joint, a splint applied, then bandaged back down over the splint. This method though, is only for venom containing neurotoxins i.e. krait, mamba, sea snake, taipan - all very unlikely to be found in rural France!

5 above. Transport comes to the victim - The victim should not walk to the transport!

6a above: Add no smoking to the list.

6c above: Unless applied within the first couple of seconds, venom removal gadgets have little affect.

6d above: Antivenom can be more dangerous than the initial envenomation.

6e above: Paracetamol may be given for pain but better left to the professionals to decide on suitable analgesia.      Never give aspirin!

Fear is likely to do more harm - Reassure the victim.

Daryl

 

[londoneye]

never worked that one out!    did  wave a length  of our 30 foot blue hose pipe at other half for many  hours after his fright shouting, look i've caught it !    only one of us found this amusing, very amusing actually because entertainment is a bit thin on the ground in our area !

[Alcazar]

[quote user="Deimos"]

Not particularly relevant to your snake nor people posts in response) but one think I have noticed in France is that, if you ask a local “what sort of snake it was”, then you will invariably be told it’s a viper.  A length of hose pipe lying on the ground is “a viper”.  Whenever I’ve described a snake I’ve seen to any local I’ve always got the “viper” with an added “dangerous” response.

 

Ian

[/quote]

Well, Ive had the exact opposite. In the Gorge du Tarn, about 13 years ago,  with my youngest, we saw a largish thick snake on the banks of the river. It had Red, Yellow and Black bands along it's length., and was around a metre long.

On questioning locals, I was repeatedly asked if it could have been a length of hose?

Not unless hose has eyes and a mouth, and rears up when alarmed, it couldn't, and I've NEVER seen hose move of it's own accord, either.

Mind, it never moved as fast as I did[:$]

Alcazar

[Cassis]

[quote user="Alcazar"]

In the Gorge du Tarn, about 13 years ago,  with my youngest, we saw a largish thick snake on the banks of the river. It had Red, Yellow and Black bands along it's length., and was around a metre long.

On questioning locals, I was repeatedly asked if it could have been a length of hose?

Not unless hose has eyes and a mouth, and rears up when alarmed, it couldn't, and I've NEVER seen hose move of it's own accord, either.

[/quote]

I saw a hose move of its own accord just this afternoon when I hooked up the pump to the well and one of the hose joints came adrift.  It chased me from side to side, herding me as a sheepdog does a sheep, until I eventually managed to work my way behind it and cut off the pump.  Then it knew who was boss.

[Jarousse]

Hi  just had a look at your list and pictures of snakes although did not find the one

that we found threes days ago in our pile of building sand it was about 10/12cm

was black with yellow patterns on it's back it had also layed eggs in the sand

have to say that we killed it the eggs.    do you have any idea if it was dangerous

and what   type it was we live in dept  23.

 

Pauline 

[chris pp]

I'm sorry but at that size and with that description it's hard to begin to guess what it was, probably either a grass snake or western whip snake, sure it wasn't a lizard? The eggs were almost certainly those of a lizard, not a snake.

Chris