GigaBit Switch for Network (is it worth going for PoE)

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Hello techies

I need to buy a switch for the house. I wired up the rooms with Ethernet when I was renovating and we now have more than 4 inputs for the Orange LiveBox

So, I was going to buy a simple 8-port switch. D-Link do a cheapy at 49.99€ , but they also do a PoE version for 98.99€. Does anyone have any advice about what to buy ? I was going to buy Cisco kit but they haven't got a PoE version in the local Saturn shop here in Lux.

Has anyone got a D-Link, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Edit: They are a lot cheaper from the UK 21 and 54 quid respectively...ho hum

[Quillan]

PoE - Power over Ethernet. Rather than go into a lengthy description the following will explain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

You probably don't need it unless you intend to hang anything else other than a computer (or printer) on the end.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

thanks Quillan

I sort of know what the PoE stuff is for. The more power out per channel the hotter they run and therefor are noisier because of the cooling they need. I don't have anything that can use PoE at the moment (I'm not sure about the IP Phone....I toyed with getting some security cameras) but is it going to be the future or is PoE+? It seems daft not to spend that little bit more and get something a bit more future proof. Is there any difference between D-Link, NetGear and Cisco? I guess that should have been my question really. People out there have bought switches and I'm more interesting to know which ones to avoid. Considering I can buy an 8port for 20quid, I will probably go for the D-Link

[Quillan]

Firstly not all hubs are switched and you should assume they are not unless it says so. Secondly the speed of the switching is also important if there is high data usage. People assume that when you say "high speed switched hub" that it means it can deal with high speed Ethernet which is not always true. At the end of the day of course it all depends on how fast your ADSL is.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

That's a good point. I thought 10/100/gigabit would be the standard. I know some are managed switched and some are not, but I don't know the difference (i.e. I've not had time to find out).  We're currently getting 14 meg /second downspeed, which I was pleasantly surprised about.

[Quillan]

I don't think you do understand.

Hubs be they 10/100gigabit is not the issue. To keep it simple we will talk about a four port 10 gigabit hub with all ports occupied. If it is not switched then the speed each 10 gigabit port will be divided by four so each user will get 10/4 resulting in each user getting 2.5 gigabite speed.

A switched hub gives each user the full 10 gigabit but it switches between all four users very quickly so the speed of the switch is actually the speed at which it switches from one user (or port) to the next.

By the way it is actually megabits per second not gigabits. Most computers will be 10/100mbps which means they can work at either speed but often the default (if they have the older chips) to 10mbps so you have to change the settings to 100mbps.

Be wary of your ADSL router as well. I have a Livebox 2 which is supposed to be 10/100 switched, it isn't. Running network analyser software with three computers and a printer connected the best you can get is around 8mbps and sometimes not even that. What I did is bought a second hand CISCO 10/100 switched rack mounted hub and connected everything to that then just one cable from the hub to the router. Copying a big file like a film from one computer to another is done is seconds, documents are almost instant and all computers have better Internet speed. For the guests we have a 10/100 WiFi base station connected to it and the Orange Livebox 2 WiFi is available only to us.

[Chancer]

I hope you dont mind me jumping in with what I think is a relevant question although I dont really have a clue what you are talking about, you can create a new thread with my question if you like Quillan.

Its regarding providing internet access for guests, probably wi-fi as that seems to be what most people look for.

My first two apartments are finished and ready to rent, I still have a few things to attend to like the TV antenne and also internet access, I could just give them my wi-fi access code for the Freebox but is there a better way?

I would like if possible to make sure that I have some priority over the bandwidth if thats the right term, if someone starts downloading a movie etc the other tenants maybe surfing or whatever will there be anything left for me?

Is there a way of throttling down each connection whether it be wi-fi or ethernet and perhaps reserving a minimum amount for myself?

The Freebox I think has 4 ethernet ports, will I eventually when the other flats are occupied have to get another phone line and internet abonnement? What do hotels and guest houses do, or Macdonalds come to that?

After posting this I will do a speedtest and tell you what speeds I am getting.

[Chancer]

This is what I get after all the neighbours have gone to bed:

[URL=http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3361784967][IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/3361784967.png[/IMG][/URL]

And this is whats left after switching the TV on, seems to take more than usual but its a movie on Arté so maybe high definition.

[URL=http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3361791270][IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/3361791270.png[/IMG][/URL]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Chancer"]

Its regarding providing internet access for guests, probably wi-fi as that seems to be what most people look for.

[/quote]

Exactly and don't forget more people use tablets and phones these days which can only connect via WiFi.

[quote user="Chancer"]

My first two apartments are finished and ready to rent, I still have a few things to attend to like the TV antenne and also internet access, I could just give them my wi-fi access code for the Freebox but is there a better way?

[/quote]

I assume you are renting them out unfurnished? If that is the case then I would suggest to the first tennant that if they want a phone and Internet to get it installed and you will refund them the price of the line installation. It is easier that way because the line will be deactivated when they leave as it is them that has the line contract with Orange/FT and not you.

My firend who rents out three houses does not even supply a TV antenne because you don't even know if people want one. With the ADSL speeds you are getting their (French) TV will be via Internet anyway. In my friends case it is too slow and people fit their own antenne or dish and take it (and mounting bracket would you believe) with them when they move . That sort of cancels out your other questions about ports etc. I should point out however that after my dealings with HADOPI that if you allow WiFi access to your router you are liable for anything naughty they download and not them unless you create a 'Hot Spot'.

With regards to McDonalds, you connect to their central server then on to the Internet. The first time you ever login you need to give them your details after which it is automatic. This is so they can trace what is downloaded directly to the user. For my B&B I have activated the 'Hot Spot' and people use it via that so Orange can trace back any naughty downloads to the user and I am not involved at all.

As another side issue. I suspect you still read the French press and noted yesterday that Free is up for sale. It looks like Orange is going to buy it but that has to be cleared by one of the government 'ministers' (can't remember which one).

(Spell checker not working today so sorry for any errors.)

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Thanks Quillan

I meant 10/100/1000 mbits rather than 10/100/gigabit

I will probably go for something like this ( the PoE versions are a little expensive)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cisco-SG100D-08-UK-CSB-SG100D-08-8-PORT-GIGABIT-DESKTOP-SWITCH-/380856890064?pt=UK_Computing_NetworkSwitches_RL&hash=item58acd6f2d0#ht_1744wt_1153

 

However, I do have a Draytek Vigor 2860 in a box (the LiveBox replaced it) - would it be technically possible to use that as a switch ?

[Chancer]

Quillan. They are fully furnished apartments let under the meublée de tourisme régime, short term lets, the maximum anyone is allowed to stay is 3 months, the apartments cannot be their sole residence and hence there is no question of anyone having their own phone connected, tv antenne, parabole, internet connection etc, it all has to be supplied by myself.

Think of them as gites if you like.

I dont have to provide internet access but would be a fool not to in the present climate, things might change in the future if the tariffs for data on French mobile phones become cheaper, in theory I am still supposed to provide a payphone or have a cabine teléphonique within 50 meters or something stupid like that, in practice every guest will have their own mobile and I havnt seen a phone box within 100km in 9 years of my travelling around.

What do you suggest I do or what do others with gîtes do?

At the moment I will be sharing it with 2 other apartments, in time up to 6 others and its my experience that modern couples spend their evening not socialising with each other but with others via social media sites on their devices as you call them, so it could be between 5 and 13 people uisng the same internet connection.

[Quillan]

Sorry I didn't know or forgot.

Well to be honest it does not look good on the speed front anyway if even half these people start using the WiFi come to that if just the minimum  use it.

I don't have a clue how Gites get on but I suspect they just give people access and hope they don't start downloading things they should not.

As to limiting peoples bandwidth thats going to be tough because they will never be the same devices and your router will probably not allow you to do that. Kit wise you are looking at some serious routers, bridges and hubs with proper network management software and it won't be cheap.

You could start your research by searching for "control software for public wifi" there seems to be a lot of stuff around, some 'free' at least for a trial and others that include harware and software. In amongst the results I found this.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2031443/how-to-set-up-public-wi-fi-at-your-business.html

which looks interesting, something I will try reading over a couple of days and looking at some of the links they give.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Chancer / Quillan

 

Won't something like this help (for chancer)?

http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-2925

You can set-up a wireless guest portal as well as being able to block allsorts of things and manage bandwidth per connection. I've got something similar but only scratched the surface of what they can do

[Chancer]

HSD, I sort of get the impression that its the sort of thing that I will need but i confess to not really understanding one word of the description [:(] I didnt see if it was a wi-fi hub, I can make ethernet connections in each of the flats, its all cabled and compliant for Consuel, indeed a few years ago I was told to simply give them a non-wireless ethernet connection as the access could be easily controlled and restricted by a router device, probably like the one shown, however the world has moved on and continues to do so and I dont ever see anyone connecting their computer with a cable these days.

Meanwhile the French regs will insist for at least another 20 years that we have ethernet cabling in every room of the house including the kitchen and toilet [:P]

Quillan, if you are able to look at that I would be really gratefull, it wouldnt really make any sense to me and an informed overview would be most welcome.

[Ian]

Chancer, this may be a stupid idea, but....

If you have an ethernet connection to each flat, and could connect one end of each to the smart router that's been mentioned, that can control access and bandwidth, could you not terminate each ethernet connection in some sort of "wifi station"?

Something like this?

http://store.three.co.uk/view/product/ql_catalog/threecatdevice/2566

As I said, it's probably impractical.....

[AnOther]

Allowing tenants use of your WiFi would sooner or later result in a letter from HADOPI, it's a very very bad idea !

[quote user="Quillan"]For my B&B I have activated the 'Hot Spot' and

people use it via that so Orange can trace back any naughty downloads

to the user and I am not involved at all.[/quote]I can scarcely believe what I'm reading Q, unless guests are logging into your partage with their own personal Orange ID's then everything they do online is still 100% down to you as the subscriber.

You cannot grant them access to it and then claim innocence or ignorance !

[Quillan]

Sorry AnOther but your wrong.

To use an Orange hotspot as an Orange user you have to use your email address and password to login. If your not an Orange user then you have to buy a pass for X number of hours depending on how much you want to spend. To buy one you need to complete an online form with all your details (name, address etc) and get a login and password. That means anyone using an Orange Hotspot is tracable. The hotspot is also not owned by the person who has the router, it is owned by Orange but the person who owns the router gets a 'free' pass to use all the Orange hotspots for allowing their router top be used. If you look at the WiFi in my house there are actually two, my own private 'normal' WiFi and another called Orange which is the HotSpot and anyone using it is nothing to do with me personally.

When I got my warning letter last year from HADOPI I explained what was going on i.e. I had an open network for guests and asked if they had a solution. After many months they came back and told me to activate the Hotspot and let guests use that then it wold be nothig to do with me. It is a pain especially for none Orange users as they have to get a login from Orange and of course pay a fee. It is a 'clunky' system but it works.

[AnOther]

I have partage turned on in my Livebox so I know about the 'Orange' hotspot.

I was sure though that somewhere I'd read that as well as the secure partition you cold set up an open segment and thought that is what you were talking about because of the problems you mention associated with guests accessing hotspot but on rechecking I don't think that is actually possible.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Doesn't the Draytek do what you want ? You can set up a WiFi Vlan specifically for your guests (or direct Ethernet if that is what you want). They seem to have been built to give you total fliexibility over the security of your network. Like I said, I never even scratched the surface of what it was capable when I had it up and running but I'm sure it can do what you want.

[Quillan]

[quote user="AnOther"]I have partage turned on in my Livebox so I know about the 'Orange' hotspot.

I was sure though that somewhere I'd read that as well as the secure partition you cold set up an open segment and thought that is what you were talking about because of the problems you mention associated with guests accessing hotspot but on rechecking I don't think that is actually possible.
[/quote]

I think you may be getting confused with what I had before which was a seperate WiFi router connected to the Livebox which had no security key. That way I could have two 'networks', one private for us and another which could only see the Internet connection for the guests.Thats now gone so the Livebox only runs our private (secure) network plus the Orange Hotspot which the guests now use. Not exactly the way I wanted to go because it is a little more comlicated for the guests to use as they have to set up their device before they can access the Hotspot but it does mean I won't have a problem with HADOPI again.