Aligning a dish with just a Humax box and TV

[PaulT]

Aligining a dish with a Humax box - note this is a slow and tedious job but costs nothing.

The Humax box needs to be setup, i.e. tuned previously. My dish has two ‘U’ clamps that clamp to the pole and a threaded rod to adjust it vertically. The U clamps need to be tightened such that it still allows movement of the dish.

If replacing a dish then you will have a good idea of the direction that the new dish needs to point.

Position a TV so that you can see it whilst aliging the dish. Connect it to the LNB via the Humax box and select a channel that is not on the UK spot beam – Pick 144 is not at this moment in time.

Adjust the vertical alignment so that it is higher than need be. Now very slowly turn the dish through the horizontal – it needs to be slow as when a signal is detected by the box there will be a slight lag before it shows on the TV. Now very slightly lower the vertical angle and repeat turning through the horizontal arc. Carry on adjusting the vertical angle until the channel is picked up.

With the pan European beam large variations of the position of the dish can be made without loss of signal.

Make some marks so that you know where the channel was detected – this will enable the dish to be re-positioned to where the signal was detected.

The UK spot beam is a completely different matter to the pan European beam and allows only a very small movement to either receive or lose the signal.

Now tune to a channel on the spot beam, i.e. 101 BBC1.

Now repeat what you have already done but only through a very small arc and fine vertical adjustments. Cary on with this until the channel is received. Now make very small adjustments to obtain the highest signal strength and quality readings.

Now tighten the ‘U’ clamps – you may need to readjust the dish if tightening causes any movement of the dish.

Once completed drill a hole through the dish bracket and the pole and fit a nut and bolt – having found the correct position you do not wish to have anything move the dish.

[Quillan]

And for those that follow these instructions to the letter and have a problem have no fear as Paul will jump in his car or whatever and pop round to sort it out.

For those that do try this under no circumstances should you drill a hole through the bracket and fit a nut and bolt.

[PaulT]

So tell me Q why should you not drill through and fit a nut and bolt????

As for problems, if you can receive a signal then the only problem people will have if they do not take their time. Sorry Q if it upsets you that you do not need a man with a meter.

[Quillan]

Because you will never be able to accurately adjust it again. By drilling through you will distort the mount and the type of adjustment required is so small that when you do the brackets up it will slip back to where it was before.

The indicators for strength and quality bars, the latter being the most important, on a Humax box are indicators only and are not accurate. An extra 1 to 1.5db can be gained using a meter, I know because I spent 9 months with technicians at my house trying different things out. Might not sound much but as an example you may get reception when it rains but when it really rains the difference is between getting a picture and not getting a picture. There is also a certain amount of 'luck' doing it your way and in general it has been proved that using a meter is much better as it is far more accurate. The reason being is because you are dealing with a parabolic surface and a focal point. The bigger the dish the further away the LNB is from the dish which means there is more scope for error.

If you need to 'lock' your dish by using a bolt or even worse a bracket attached to the wall and edge of dish then you have a cheap dish that is badly made. A good quality dish will not move on its mounts if it is installed properly, if it does then it is a cheap dish and therefore not reliable or the installer does not know what he/she is dong. The worse thing you can do is fit a bracket between the outer edge of the dish and the wall as this will distort the dish when the wind blows hard and whilst the dish can flex a little it can bend beyond the point of return ending up with a distorted dish that affects it's performance. To make it more basic and easier to understand by flexing a 120cm dish beyond the point it is designed for and can't flex back could make it equal a 90cm dish or smaller.

Another issue is that some people try to fit a 120cm dish onto their existing 'wall pole'. Quality dishes of this size require a 60mm 'pole' to mount on to where as 100/90cm dishes and below require a 40mm 'pole'. If you mount a dish that’s clearly designed for a 60mm pole on to a 40mm pole, which you can do, it will result in the dish tending to move in medium speed winds. 60mm poles are normally mounted on the wall with two brackets, one at the bottom and the other within 10cm of the top with about 40 to 50cm distance between the two wall brackets. You can buy a plated 60mm tube (a plate with four holes, one in each corner) and a 60mm tube welded to it that is bent to 90 deg but these can't really support the bigger dishes properly ending up with the bolts working lose and eventually the plate and dish can fall off the wall. The mounting bracket on a quality dish is designed with a 'lip' on the mount so that it slides onto the pole at the top and will not slide down the pole like the smaller dishes.

We also discovered by the way that cheap dishes like Triax and Label suffer from the LNB not pointing at the correct place on the dish resulting in it being necessary to bend or pack out with washers the support arm for the LNB. Likewise we found for some reason that the azimuth angle varies from cheap dish to cheap dish which should not happen. The (metal) dish that gave the best results constantly for the price was the Gibertini which whilst not as expensive as an epoxy dish (which is the best) it's not the cheapest either.

While I think of it drilling a hole through the bracket will of course invalidate any warranty.

The other error you made is that you need to check the signal quality both vertically and horizontally polarised plus on 2E and 2F then get the balance between the two because once you start getting to 120cm and beyond you can also tell the difference between both satellites and you need to 'aim' between the two. Pointing it 2E for BBC1 SD is not good enough.

Now of course you will say that it works for you and you’re very happy even if it is more buy luck than any technical skill and I am sure you will be very happy to be on hand to go and help people who get stuck.

 

 

[PaulT]

You are tiring me Q. Firstly, my dish is mounted on an extremely robust 75mm pole. The hole for the bolt is slightly larger than the bolt so permitting slight movement. As for gaining an extra 1.5dB or whatever is of really no interest. Reception of all HD channels is totally acceptable and as non HD channels are broadcast at a lower standard are therefore fully watchable.

As for luck, no such thing - when the dish points in the right direction that is it.

I have done it which contradicts your previous statement that it cannot be done.

[Quillan]

Well I guess the main reason you have been so lucky is you only need a 90cm (or even a 80cm) dish where you are which is much easier to align as would be a bigger dish as it would not require to be aligned so accurately. I doubt very much if you could repeat your system of alignment to such a satisfactory degree down south and I can supply around 18 or 19 people who would agree with me.

[PaulT]

Q you reallly are something. If I were down south - I am below Toulouse and can get to Spain in just over 1 hour. So how south do I need to be?

The new dish replaced an 80cm dish that after the change received nothing of the UK spot beam channels.

So if it makes you happy,1 AM JUST OUTSIDE OF CALAIS, WITH A 60CM DISH AND i CALLED IN AN EXPERT TO ALIGN THE DISH FOR ME. ALL THAT i HAVE WRITTEN HAS BEEN ABSOLUTE TOSH AND I AM VERY MUCH MISTAKEN THAT I USED THE PROCEDURE TWICE WHEN I RELOCATED THE DISH TO ANOTHER POSITION BECAUSE IT GAVE A BETTER LINE OF SIGHT.

HAPPY NOW? PROBABLY NOT.

[Quillan]

The thing I object to is people giving advice when they don't know what they are doing which if followed could cost others money and there is no comeback on them.

People living in the Toulouse area and slightly south of there will not have a problem with a 90cm dish if aligned properly. Go further south towards Limoux and you can still get reception with a 90cm dish but lose it in light rain. Further south you need either a 110 or 130cm dish and get to Perpignan and you really need a 150cm dish but you can get away with a 130 cm dish because it rains less. The reason for this is because the 'shape' of the beam is like an inverted egg at a SW angle.

To align a 120cm dish in the Toulouse area is much simpler and an ordinary satellite finder device (of the meter or LED type) or using a Humax or Sky box will work without a problem because both signal strength and quality is much better there. In other words your system of alignment that you used where you are will work OK but not when you go further south beyond Limoux and really need a big dish which needs to be aligned better. By the way down here 1db on the s/n level can make the difference between picture and no picture so it is of interest.

If you had explained that this system worked for you but that it might not work for others it would have been much better. My argument is that the tone of your post is to do it your way and it will definatly work for everyone and nobody needs to get a man with a meter to align their dish which is rubbish.

There now I am happy. [:D]