Brotherly Love

[Limousin Lass]

I have 2 lab x brothers who get really stressed out if they are apart from each other for even the shortest of time.  I don't want to break the bond they have but I worry about if they did have to be separated for some reason.  I have been considering getting another dog (the picture of Willow set me off thinking about this), has anyone any thoughts on this or any ideas to help them being comfortable with being apart.

Thanks  LL

PS.  Christine, has Willow found a home yet?

[Christine Animal]

It may well even things out with a third dog, get them a little out of each other playing with another pal who either of them would then be happy to stay at home with if the second is absent.

I may have a more suitable friend for your two than Willow who is small, very sweet and rather subdued.  We have recently taken in Baya (cause child being allergic) who is a young (born in January 2006) Berger des Pyrénées/Labrador cross, though she is nothing like a Labrador, smaller and slimmer with longish hair.  She looks rather like Loopins on the forum, but she is black and very, very pretty.  She has a lovely nature, loves playing with the other dogs and has been brought up with a cat.

I haven't taken any photos yet as our vet is very busy and we cannot get her spayed until 3rd May.  But I can try to take some if you would like to see her.

There is of course Lovable Lola, a really great little dog   http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1192031/ShowPost.aspx

 

[Christine Animal]

Here is Baya.   [:)]

                         [IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a363/Bechamel/Baya.jpg[/IMG]

 

[Catalpa]

How old are the brothers, Limousin Lass? And what are they crossed with? Collie?

I ask because we had two lab brothers years ago and they were very difficult to train as once apart, they were perpetually looking for each other even if we'd walked them some distance away and out of sight / earshot of each other. We had to work hard with treats and games and eventually (by the time they were about a year old) they seemed to accept that if they were on their own with one of us, they got a lot more attention and fun. Even so, they remained extremely attached to each other and when one had to be euthanased at the age of 9, due to a cancer, the remaining dog took some time to get over it. He certainly grieved hard.

[Limousin Lass]

Thank you for your help Christine, unfortunately I don't think either Lola or Baya are the dogs for me.  I agree, after thinking about it, that it will be better to get an older female about the same size as them and if I can talk OH round to my way of thinking will probably have a look at our local SPA in Limoges.

Catalpa, they are Labrador x Breton Spaniel 16 months old.  I have probably been too soft with them as I hated to see how stressed they got being apart from each other and usually gave in, this, as you found, has made outside training, i.e lead walking (they take me for a walk) very difficult.

I am not sure if getting another dog, whilst I would like one, will be the total answer, hence the reason for my posting.

 

[mossie]

I would also caution having a third dog at this point.  Whilst I am loathe to dissuade anyone to take on a dog who needs a home, given your situation at the moment, you could be making things even harder for yourself.  However on the plus side, Christine is right, another dog might refocus their attention from each other, however I sort of doubt this.  I have three dogs myself and my experience is that two dogs play together well, three often don't.  Even when we have friends' dogs round, they often seem to play in twos.  Although this might also be because two are gundogs and one is a hound, having similar age/types of dogs might work better

Also, given that your dogs are still young and need further training, it is a lot to take on.  In trying to solve one problem, you might be creating a whole set of other problems.  It might be better to try some other strategies to encourage them to be more interested in other people and not just each other.  Anyway, I wish you luck with trying to sort this out.

[Catalpa]

Limousin Lass, I think the age of the boys is a lot to do with the problems you're having. Litter brothers can be a handful and tbh, our two taught us that we wouldn't do it again - but if we did, we'd socialise and train them separately from a few months old so they were independent when apart and also they'd be easier to handle when together. Which is what we did when we bred from a later dog we had and ended up keeping a dog and a b.itch from the litter.

I'm really not sure whether another dog would solve your problem - and every situation is different anyway simply because the dogs are. If I were in your situation and did decide on another dog, I think I'd make sure it was older and already well-trained so that I wasn't in a position of having three to work on. Best of luck. [;-)]

[Limousin Lass]

Thanks for your replies Mossie and Catalpa,  On reflection I think you are both right and if I get another dog I may be taking on  or creating more problems.  I had though about sending one of them away to a dog trainer which would give me the chance to work with the other one and would obviously get them used to being apart but someone told me they could end up being aggressive to each other, although I did wonder about this as they are both neutered, I am obviously going to have to think about this a lot more.

Thanks again for your replies and for giving me some food for thought.

[mossie]

Sending one away though would only increase the distress of the two dogs if they really don't want to be separated.  If there are two of you to help, try separating them for very short periods of time, making sure they each have someone with them to train or play with them, ie make sure they are very distracted and/or having a lot of fun, so they are not just getting their fun time from each other.  Then build up the amount of time gradually and on a regular basis ie start with just a few minutes and then increase the time from then on.  What you are trying to do is realign their focus onto people and away from each other.  This is a classic problem with taking on two litter mates, but I am sure with time and patience you can sort this out.  In the long run, this is the best for the dogs.  Good luck with it and I hope you start to see some results soon.  I do think it is sensible to wait to get a third dog as this just brings extra complexities into the mix.  As Catalpa wrote, it does of course depend a lot on the temperaments of the dogs.  I have two quite difficult adult dogs and then I got my Springer pup.  I have spent a lot of time with him on his own and it seems to be working out well.  I was very worried at the beginning that he might pick up some of the anxieties and bad habits of my pointer but he just has such a sweet, sweet temperament that she has had very little negative effect on him, even though they play together a lot (apart from teaching him how to steer clear when she is having a nowty moment!!!)  Nurture is obviously important but I am leaning more towards the nature camp now!

[Hoddy]

I wonder if it would be worth looking up the researchor perhaps advice on human twins. I know that they can sometimes present quite difficult problems for secondary schools if they've been together all through primary schools.