Bar Anglais

[Val_B]

We are settling into our new lives and now thinking that with help from some new friends (already running a cafe with their many grown-up family), we could maybe manage to work a hotel/bar/restaurant with them.

We already bought an old hotel not far from Cognac in the centre of a town of 3000 pop, originally to turn into self-contained apartments, but now that we are France-based, we are thinking to make a business there. The hotel hasn't been run for 2 years, and closed due to the owner retiring and his grandson didn't want the hassle.

The other hotel in town has just become apartments upstairs, but still a busy restaurant downstairs. We appreciate that this is our main competition, so therefore are thinking an English style establishment may be a good idea, with roast dinners, perhaps fish & chips?

Visiting the Chamber of Commerce this week, but hoping all will be straightforward, as it was a hotel before. Any advice about how long it all takes to clear red tape appreciated, with summer around the corner.

I have some experience of bar/cafe work, a long time ago. We are both fairly young, and looking for a new start with a young family - are we mad??

Does anyone have any thoughts, advice or menu ideas for a bar anglais?

Many thanks in advance!

[Primrose]

>The other hotel in town has
>just become apartments upstairs, but
>still a busy restaurant downstairs.
> We appreciate that this
>is our main competition, so
>therefore are thinking an English
>style establishment may be a
>good idea, with roast dinners,
>perhaps fish & chips?
>
Firstly, have you looked into why the other hotel has changed into appartments, was this because there was not enough business to make the hotel side pay and that it was being subsidised by the restaurant?

Secondly, are you sure that an English restaurant in France is a good idea, we have french friends who think that roast dinners with meat and three veg and yorkshire puds are not what the French would want, this could mean that the majority of your clients could be tourists, is there enough tourism in the area to get you through the year, or could you have a very empty resaurant in the winter?

One idea may be to split the menu, say to have traditional French/English, this way you could cater for both markets.

Also, it is always a good idea to invite your local mayor round for a drink and get his opinion on what he feels would be best, it pays to have him on your side.

Sorry if this sounds a bit like, "Oh it will not work" but you have to way up all options before ploughing in shed loads of money and not getting much of a return.

Hope all goes well and good luck, keep us updated as to progress.

Kind regards

David and Sam (Dept 37)

[Moorejw]

Do you think you could fit in a tea rooms as well? Its the one thing we miss - being able to stop for a cuppa and a cake!! Most French bars/cafes serve a good range of drinks and are open all hours, but no pastries to go with the coffee, and always a poor excuse for a cup of tea! There are certainly plenty of English tourists in the area and the Dutch and Germans would also enjoy the tea and cakes scene. You might even convert a few locals!

Good luck with your venture, let us know when you are open, we are not far away from you.

John and Angie Moore (17)

[Val_2]

Don't look upon my reply as a dampener,but, watching one of those Living the Dream programmes recently about two couples who bought a hotel in north Wales between them, it was a real eye-opener. Firstly they were so enthusiastic about the new venture then when they started to get business,all they did was moan about all the hard work and long long hours and no private lives anymore as well as the financial hardships. For the life of me I just could not understand why they ever did it in the first place,surely they must have known it would never be easy, ask any hotelier/restaurant owner that,so I would just say that do go into it with your eyes open,be prepared to "suffer" for a few years until you get on your feet and don't expect it to be all plain sailing as France is a bureaucratic nightmare sometimes. As for the english menu bit, I have to agree with the other poster that the french do not really take to huge one-plate meals and prefer three or four smaller courses.

[letrangere]

Sorry, but can't help thinking of the recent article I read in the Telegraph about Nippy and Nigel, two guys who opened an Indian restaurant in the Ardeche, admittedly in a much smaller village. I think it lasted one summer before they closed it with large debts (40K sterling). They put it down to the massive costs associated with running a business in France (have you checked this out?), the limited summer season and the reluctance of the local French to try non-French cuisine.

Margaret

[Iceni]

Hi Val

Other than short term novelty value I cannot see the French becoming regulars for English type food. As regards ex-pats and tourists -

the Dutch have a reputation for not even bringing their money with them let alone spending it
very few Germans down here don't know about yr area
English - yes I miss fish n chips but not much, don't have roast dinners at home so would not go out to eat them and for most people it seems part of the holiday fun is eating foreign food - so I will be seen as a doom and gloom merchant

Competition - here in rural nowhere the 2 local midday only restaurants have just a 5 course menu de jour at 10 (wine inc at 1, coffee inc at the other). Prices are higher in St Cere and Bretenoux but not a lot. The market seems very price sensitive and I have never advocated taking part in a price war.

Tea room - sounds better to me but even though the margins would be good you would need a lot of customers to make a living.

Your earlier idea of apartments for either the SS or crumbly tenants sounds a good one - though of course I know nothing of the red tape that would undoubtedly require cutting. As with any other biz venture it's all about selecting your targets and getting the marketing right but you know that already.

John & Di
http://www.iceni-it.co.uk

[Val_B]

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies - plenty of "food for thought" there!!

Will be keeping all your advice in mind as we plan our next step - I have seen the programmes you have mentioned - i.e. the hotel in Wales and the Nippi and Nigel saga, though I left UK just after seeing the Indian chef arrive! I was shocked at their expenditure for the restaurant lease and summer season only! Difference is that we won't be playing for the TV audience, though we may consider it, as the Tuscany couple have totally booked out their accommodation this summer, following the success of the programme!

The tea room is definitely worth considering, and may take a trip to Ruffec to see what they are doing there... a meal out in the name of research! Could also do a deal for our hotel guests to eat-in, as a package... the other restaurants are often reluctant to open in the evenings - sorry forgot to mention that.... Sounds like roast dinners and fish and chips are a non-starter! However we may do special evenings with national themes etc.

We are relying on the experience of our friends who are also keen to offer couscous (as in their other business) which apparently the French are very keen on. I suppose we are guided by their optimism that this thing could work...!