Katieb Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I am in a difficult situation and hope that you may be able to advise me. I am currently borrowing my father's car to drive here in France, i am a named driver on his policy. However he is terminally ill and he will sadly not be with us much longer, however i need to drive the car to the UK this week to be with my family and return to France with it after the inevitable. Would i be correct in thinking that his car insurance will be invalid as soon as he passes away - would i be uninsured driving it? We have another car in France of which my husband and i are insured for. I know i should speak to my Father's insurance Company but i can't bring myself to at the moment. I don't know if it makes any differnce but we are contemplating purchasing the car from my Mother and importing it to France. So basically - can i possibly get any inusrance to drive his British registered car either in France or the UK even though i am not the registered owner and am resident in France.Thanking you all for any helpful advise.Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Sorry to hear of your problems.If the car is still UK registered, as I'm assuming it is, then technically, as a french resident, you cannot insure it in France neither can you insure it in UK. I strongly suspect also that you will find that being non resident may automatically disqualify you as a named driver and therefore you may already be driving it uninsured so if I were you I'd check this out as a matter of urgency, insurance difficulties are probably the very last thing you need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onion van man Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 My car insurance is due for renewal very soon but, due to a delay in moving to France I'm going to have to renew it here. My current insurance company will not cover european use for longer than a month at a time for a maximum of 90 days per year so, they won't be getting my business this year. I think that Ernie said that Liverpool Victoria were good for european cover. I have had a look and they cover upto 180 days in a row iirc. So the question is if I came back before then and returned say a week later will that 180 day cover start afresh or is it 180 days per years insurance ? My intensions are to register and insure it in France asap but, would be nice to know what the coverage is with liverpool Vic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 You would have to read the policy wording or better still, phone them up and ask but I think you'll find that it's 180 days PA, too open to abuse otherwise.This looks interesting too http://www.stuartcollins.com/index.shtml but personally I'd want to research it very carefully.If you're over 50 Saga do European cover with no time constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katieb Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 Just to confirm the situation, the Insurance Company (which is actually Liverpool Victoria - who are apparently Frizzels) are aware that i am a French Resident and that i have a french Insurance Policy and that i am driving the vehicle in France so presently, all is OK. What i am wondering is........is an insurance policy immediately invalid once a person passes away? Thankyou for your time and thanks for your kind thoughts Ernie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 There are various issues here concerning your use of your father's car in France, but let's just deal with the most pressing one.In terms of the UK insurance, if your father was to pass away, then his insurance contract will become nul and void from that moment and you will no longer be covered to drive it.Although you are contemplating purchasing the car, you are not yet the registered owner so you will not be able to obtain insurance cover in your own name. That means you will have to use your own French car for the trip back to the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistebeast Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 As an aside,although this doesn't apply in your case, You can insure a car in the UK if you are the registered keeper. It is not necessary to be the registered owner.cheerspete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audois Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I'd second the Stuart Collins link. If anything they'll give you good advice but their prices are excellent too compared to other UK insurers; used them once took out an annual policy & cancelled it after 30 days getting an 'almost' full 11month refund (they knew I was going to do this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 [quote user="pistebeast"]As an aside,although this doesn't apply in your case, You can insure a car in the UK if you are the registered keeper. It is not necessary to be the registered owner.cheerspete[/quote]It's perfectly possible and legal to be the "Registered Keeper" of a vehicle without owning it and whilst this can generally be taken to imply ownership it is not proof of such.Proof of ownership could be established by sales invoice or receipt or similar but there is no such thing as a "Registered Owner". Perhaps you could tell us exactly where and how one is supposed to "Register" ownership [8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onion van man Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 If kate's father cancelled his insurance, I don't see any reason why she could not insure the car herself. I have never seen any written rule saying your name has to be on the log book or that there has to be proof of vehicle ownership either.Look at it this way, If you saw a secondhand car you liked for sale you could then get insurance on it , pay for the car and drive it home. Essentially with no proof of ownership or being the registered keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 You're quite right of course but just one point to bear in mind:.You are required to carry the vehicle documents with you and if the car is not registered in your name then you should have a letter or something from the owner authorising you to be in possession of it and proving insurance.I've never been in this position so don't know eaxctly what form this should take except to remember that in the case of an incident or accident a non English speaking Gendarme might need to satisfy himself that you are entitled to be driving so anything which would fulfil that I imagine would suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I think we should remember the key point here. The original poster is a foreign resident visiting the UK, therefore she will not be able to provide a potential UK insurer with a permanent UK address in order to be assessed for risk and be issued with a policy.The alternative is to obtain a French policy, but to do so, she'd have to produce the vehicle's registration document in her name - which she can't do at this moment in time The concept of a separate keeper/owner doesn't apply in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Apologies SD, I'd lost sight of the fact that the OP is French resident.Could she obtain French insurance on a UK registered car, in her name or otherwise. Surely this is only possible as part of the re-registration process once you have been issued with a quittus fiscale ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanb Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 [quote user="Sunday Driver"]In terms of the UK insurance, if your father was to pass away, then his insurance contract will become nul and void from that moment and you will no longer be covered to drive it.[/quote]SD: are you sure about this? It implies that when the policyholder dies, the policy will not cover anyone to drive his car, even those who were covered while he was alive - e.g. his family.It's so long since I saw a British insurance policy that I'm not in any position to argue, but it seems unlikely. My French policy specifically states the opposite. My death will not invalidate the insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I'm sure SD is right.An insurance contract is exclusively between the proposer, i.e. the OP's father, and the Insurance company and any named drivers will simply be appendages to that.That said there may be some special case for a surviving spouse where both husband and wife are jointly named on a policy for the sole family car but I don't think this would extend to any other named drivers once the proposer had passed away.I must say Katieb that I'm still somewhat uneasy about your assertion:[quote user="Katieb"]Just to confirm the situation, the Insurance Company (which is actually Liverpool Victoria - who are apparently Frizzels) are aware that i am a French Resident and that i have a french Insurance Policy and that i am driving the vehicle in France so presently, all is OK.[/quote]I do not understand how this works unless they have assumed that the car is covered under your French insurance, which of course it is not.However distressing I think you absolutely must speak to the insurance company as a matter of urgency to see exactly where you stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I think I would ask Liverpool Victoria to put this in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistebeast Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 [quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="pistebeast"] As an aside,although this doesn't apply in your case, You can insure a car in the UK if you are the registered keeper. It is not necessary to be the registered owner.cheerspete[/quote]It's perfectly possible and legal to be the "Registered Keeper" of a vehicle without owning it and whilst this can generally be taken to imply ownership it is not proof of such.Proof of ownership could be established by sales invoice or receipt or similar but there is no such thing as a "Registered Owner". Perhaps you could tell us exactly where and how one is supposed to "Register" ownership [8-)][/quote] As I said, this does not apply to the O/P's initial post, and this is something I have in the UK. One of my vans is registered in my wifes name and the insurance is in my name, the insurance company are aware of this and it is perfectly legal, I even had a claim on one of these. I can't remember if the old style V5 differentiated between owner and keeper. On each van I have bought since the new style V5 was implemented the registration has been put into my wifes name. I have been doing this for over 10 years now.In the UK not France.cheerspete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanb Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 [quote user="ErnieY"]I'm sure SD is right. An insurance contract is exclusively between the proposer, i.e. the OP's father, and the Insurance company and any named drivers will simply be appendages to that.[/quote]If you and SD are right, there are some consequences that are rather hard to believe.Assume that you have a car, and a comprehensive insurance policy in which the cover extends to anyone driving with your consent - or one in which your wife and children are all named drivers (I'm not sure whether this would make any difference to the question).(1) Suppose you are on a family vacation trip in the car and, while you are far from home, you die. Can no-one drive the car home? (2) Suppose you die at home. Can nobody use the car to go and do all the things that would need to be done?(3) Suppose that you die, and a week later, while your affairs arestill being sorted out, the car is destroyed by a fire in your garage. No cover?In a nutshell, I don't know why the policyholder's death would automatically terminate the insurance. For instance, it doesn't terminate your householder's insurance, as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Assume that you have a car, and a comprehensive insurance policy in which the cover extends to anyone driving with your consent - or one in which you wife and children are all named drivers (I'm not sure whether this would make any difference to the question).I think you've just said it yourself, "anyone driving with your, (the policy holders), consent" and a deceased person might have some difficulty in giving this. In my experience BTW, once you get beyond proposer and spouse and say 2 other named drivers, insurers will often put you on an any driver policy.(1) Suppose you are on a family vacation trip in the car and, while you are far from home, you die. Can no-one drive the car home?As per my previous post. There may be some clause for the surviving spouse otherwise no as the deceased policy holder cannot give consent although some companies, Saga I believe for one, have a special clause permitting any driver to take over in dire circumstances.(2) Suppose you die at home. Can nobody use the car to go and do all the things that would need to be done?Ditto (2)(3) Suppose that you die, and a week later, while your affairs are still being sorted out, the car is destroyed by a fire in your garage. No cover?Interesting one. Whilst not noted for their generosity perhaps in this circumstance they would pay up as the car was not actually being driven.In a nutshell, I don't know why the policyholder's death would automatically terminate the insurance. For instance, it doesn't terminate your householder's insurance, as far as I know.No but you're not comparing apples with apples. A house is a fixed asset which is insured on an enirely different set of criteria.As in all these things, if in doubt ask. An insurance company may or may not extend cover in a specific case or circumstance but if something happens and you haven't asked you can be sure that will they will find a way to back off and leave you hanging out to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanb Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 One way to be sure about this would be to find a clause saying either that the policyholder's death terminates the policy, or alternatively that it doesn't. I take it that the relevant policy doesn't contain such a clause, or we wouldn't be discussing it. Otherwise, I agree, the only thing to do is ask.It might be a good idea to ask before it happens, though. Murphy's law being what it is, if you're travelling with the policyholder in his car, and he dies, it will be on a Friday evening when anyone who could give you a ruling will have gone home for the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Out of consideration for the OP's unhappy circumstances which prompted the thread I will refrain from flippancy but will reiterate, as you have, that you must ask the questions of the insurance company, and at the earliest possible opportunity, i.e. tomorrow !Be sure to ask specifically if they are currently covering you in France. I strongly suspect not but I hope I'm wrong on this point..!Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 [quote user="allanb"] I take it that the relevant policy doesn't contain such a clause, or we wouldn't be discussing it. Otherwise, I agree, the only thing to do is ask.[/quote]I don't think that is the only reason, probably the OP would find it very difficult to say to her father 'can you let me see your insurance policy in case/for when you die' and who wouldn't ?I do agree thugh that the OP needs to get their position confirmed urgently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Point taken however you wouldn't nessessarily need to see it because as a named driver the insurance company will talk to you on the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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