Asking prices and acceptances

[Arkon]

[quote]Normally, if a compromis de vente is sent by post, it will be sent by a method that requires signature as proof of delivery. The seven-day period will start from when the buyer's copy is signed for....[/quote]

Sorry to be pedantic, but if there is no laid down procedure as far as you know, why do you say that the 7 days starts from when the buyer signs for the copy, is there somewhere that says that?

And our Notaire said that he had never heard of Vendors  signing first, is it common where you live? I can then put him right!

[andyh4]

Arkon,

what Will has said about the 7 day period being from date of confirmation of receipt is exactly what we were told in the accompanying letter to our Compromis du Vente.  One reaons why the rules may be understood but not hard and fast is that the Estate Agent can draw up the CdV and be responsible for the signatures.  In this case the Notaire is not involved at all at this stage.

Just my 2c worth

 

[Will]

but if there is no laid down procedure as far as you know, why do you say that the 7 days starts from when the buyer signs for the copy, is there somewhere that says that?

No, it is just common practice - and it makes sense. The seven-day 'cooling off' period is something comparatively new. The inconsistencies caused by things like it applying only to the buyer, not the seller, and the impact this has on when the seven days actually starts have not yet been ironed out. So the ideal way of doing things, if such a thing exists in France, has probably not evolved yet.

Regarding the second point, the agency for which Mrs Conq works finds it far more satisfactory to get the vendors to sign the compromis before the buyer - for many reasons. In that they are far from alone. Other agencies, and notaires, will do it differently.

One soon learns from living in France and from this forum that there is seldom a standard answer for all of France. There are wide variations in the way things are done, and guidelines and procedures are interpreted differently depending on with whom you are dealing. 

I would strongly caution against hinting to a notaire that he/she might be doing something wrong, or in an illogical or inefficient fashion. If that's the way your particular official operates, then it's best to go along with it rather than rock the boat.

[Arkon]

[quote]but if there is no laid down procedure as far as you know, why do you say that the 7 days starts from when the buyer signs for the copy, is there somewhere that says that? No, it is just common pra...[/quote]

No, it is not just common practice. I have found what I have been looking for on the Notaires de France web site, and I quote:

"Since 1st June 2001 the non professional purchaser of a dwelling house, benefits of an option of retraction if the preliminary contract is concluded under private signature, or of a cooling-off period if the preliminary contract is concluded by an authentic instrument. During this period, any down payment is forbidden.
Right of retraction
The non professional purchaser can retract within seven days from the following day of the first presentation of the letter signifying the contract. This rule provision applies to the instruments under private signature which the matter is the construction or purchase of a building used for accommodation.
The contract is signified by a recorded-delivery letter or by any other kind of method with the same guarantees for the determination of the date of receipt or delivery."

Secondly, as regards Mrs Conqs Agency I assume that all the Clauses that the Buyer wants put in are put into the Compromis before it is presented to the Vendor for the first signature?

[Will]

Glad you found what you were looking for. Not all agents or notaires follow that procedure however.

I assume that all the Clauses that the Buyer wants put in are put into the Compromis before it is presented to the Vendor for the first signature?

Absolutely. The compromis de vente is a legal contract and it would be both unprofessional and illegal to insert more conditions after one party had agreed to it. If any changes are subsequently requested, then a new contract would have to be drawn up and signed.

[Debra]

Arkon, surely the bit you pasted into your post can agree with both yours and Will's versions, re the time the contract starts, and the only thing that differs is in who signs first?  This explains why people are reading it different ways - its ambiguous. 

As I said, I was told the buyer has to sign first when you are not all together to sign (and that it was illegal for the vendor to sign first).  If I remember correctly, he said the cooling off period for a foreign buyer started the day after it was posted, as it was difficult when the buyer was in another country to verify that the document had been signed for and for a French buyer, it was assumed they would receive the document the next day.

This was told to me by an estate agent but that may be just the way he has interpreted the rules and chooses to operate.  If you think about it, this makes sense from an estate agent's point of view since it stops him having vendors waiting around indefinitely for a buyer to sign, while unable to accept any other offer no matter how long the buyer delays signing for. 

On our first attempt to buy a property, we waited weeks for the vendor to sign and this was really annoying because if he had decided not to, we would have missed other properties that became available in the meanwhile.  However, from the agent's point of view that may be preferable to the vendor missing out on a sale and him missing out on his commission because a buyer first procrastinates and then changes their mind!

[Arkon]

[quote]Arkon, surely the bit you pasted into your post can agree with both yours and Will's versions, re the time the contract starts, and the only thing that differs is in who signs first? This explains wh...[/quote]

Yes, I agree, I think that between the 2 of us we got it all right! I actually find the wording from the Notaires site a little ambiguous to be honest.

As for who signs first, I am still not convinced, especially as my Notaire friend was so incredulous that anyone could think that the vendor signing first was right or of any benefit to anyone. As to whether it is illegal or not, I will do a bit more digging and see what I can find out!

[cheminot]

I have followed this topic with much interest as I have signed a 'Compromis' to buy a property in 16 just a few days ago. It was not the first property I attempted to buy. The previous two attempts were thwarted by one of the joint vendors not being available to sign at the same time as myself and in the time waiting for them to sign they received a better offer so withdrew from the sale. My (UK) solicitor advised me not to sign any compromis until she had read it. The agents in both cases said this was not a problem, the vendors would sign it, then when it was approved by my solicitor I could sign at a later date. Whatever the ethics of this it leads me to believe that is not illegal. As regards the full asking price I have seen or heard nothing that suggests that the vendor is obliged to accept it if it is offered. The vendors obligations only commence after he has signed the compromis.

The agent through which I am buying my house has said that the 7 day cooling off period commences from the day I sign for the reciept of the compromis which will be in England. She has even asked me to post to her the postal reciept just in case the Post Office lose it!

cheminot (on track)

 

[Dobsie]

We are currently selling our house and therefore have signed mandats with a number of agencies. My understanding (from the agents and our notaire) is that if they get us the net vendeur price agreed in the paperwork we are obliged to sell. We have been told that there have been cases where this has been enforced. Therefore, we have put in the price we would be happy with but will negotiate below that if we want to if we have an offer. Not sure whether this too varies by region but here in 01, it seems to be the case.

[cheminot]

It sounds to me that if the asking price has been achieved the agent and perhaps the notaire can see no reason why it should not proceed so they can get their fees. They have after all done the work of marketing the house. If I were the vendor in this situation I would want to see where it was written in law or whether, as I believe, more likely to be in the small print of the sale mandat.

In either case the agent and/or the notaire are likely to have recourse to law but given the cost and timescale of such action I think they would be reluctant to do so.

On the other hand if I had achieved the asking price I think I would be well pleased and unlikely to want to back out.

cheminot (on track)