Mobile home park address ok to register vehicle?

[wfdTamar]

I'm Australian and considering buying a holiday home in France to use approximately 6 months per year. To find a suitable area and house I thought buying a campervan might be a good idea. The problem with that is registering it without an address.

I did find one company in France that know of a method, but it requires at least two people (no good for me as I'm single). There's also a company in The Netherlands that have a method.

One way I thought might be a low cost method is buying a mobile home on a permanent site in a park. Question is would that work as an address for registration purposes? Also could I do it not being a permanent resident?

[nomoss]

As far as I know, a foreigner can register a car in their name in France if they own a property here, so buying a mobile home is one, if rather expensive solution, although there are probably quite cheap units for sale in less desirable areas.

EDIT: A further problem is the high cost of taxes on buying and selling property in France, about 10%, more on cheap properties. Check this with a Notaire, or on line if you understand French.

Another possibility is to buy a (preferably LHD) camper in the UK, where registration problems are not so difficult.

If you were to do this, you should advise the authorities of its export, to avoid liability to UK road tax while it is out of the country, by completing and mailing the tear-off slip on the licence document (V5C). Customs on return to UK can inform you on how to reinstate the UK registration.

There are various companies offering full insurance cover on the Continent for longer than the usual 30 days, but some of these require the driver to have a UK driving licence. Googling "european insurance for uk car" will provide more information on this.

[YCCMB]

If the camper van and the mobile home are both temporary and purely for the purposes of doing your research before buying, and if your French is OK (the websites may have English language versions, I haven't checked), have you considered

Wikicampers or Yescapa (there may be even more). They're like a sort of air BnB for camper vans, where private individuals offer their camper van/motor home for short term rental to other private individuals.

Might save you the cost of buying/insuring your own van, and the probably even larger cost of potentially having to buy a mobile home just to register the camper...

[nomoss]

[quote user="You can call me Betty or Queenie if you prefer"]If the camper van and the mobile home are both temporary and purely for the purposes of doing your research before buying, and if your French is OK (the websites may have English language versions, I haven't checked), have you considered

Wikicampers or Yescapa (there may be even more). They're like a sort of air BnB for camper vans, where private individuals offer their camper van/motor home for short term rental to other private individuals.

Might save you the cost of buying/insuring your own van, and the probably even larger cost of potentially having to buy a mobile home just to register the camper...[/quote]

An excellent suggestion, of which the OP should take note.

[wfdTamar]

Yes, the wikicampers suggestion is good (depending on cost and availability). Combined with some AirBNB could work.

Just had a quick look on Yescape. Minimum cost for 3 months over summer is about €6000 for something you'd be willing to use for that long (not ancient or tiny). That's not ridiculous for a one off holiday, but not something I'd want annually.

I had seen an ok looking mobile home in a park for €6000 (plus fees) and €2300 annual site fees (pretty high, but includes all electricity etc). Gives a home base and off season storage too. Though there would be campervan storage fees on top of that, though if I got a mobile home I'd probably just get a car instead.

My French is rubbish so far, but Google Chrome translates reasonably well.

[YCCMB]

"Just had a quick look on Yescape. Minimum cost for 3 months over summer is about €6000 for something you'd be willing to use for that long (not ancient or tiny). That's not ridiculous for a one off holiday, but not something I'd want annually.

I had seen an ok looking mobile home in a park for €6000 (plus fees) and €2300 annual site fees (pretty high, but includes all electricity etc). Gives a home base and off season storage too. Though there would be campervan storage fees on top of that, though if I got a mobile home I'd probably just get a car "

instead."

Guess it all depends on how many years/visits etc. you reckon it will take to find a more permanent holiday home. And if you're happy to risk buying even a mobile home on a park in an area (I assume) you don't know, which might give you storage etc., but also might turn out to be hundreds of miles from where you eventually decide you'd prefer to buy. You're saying the cost of hire isn't something you'd want annually as if you think it's going to take you several years of visits to find a place.

You've moved the goalposts a bit from your original post, where you were going to buy a mobile home so you had an address to register the camper van so you could tour around. If you're now thinking of buying a mobile home and downgrading to just a car, presumably you've now decided to confine your search to an area local to the mobile home, or you've thought about factoring in the additional accommodation costs you'll incur if you're travelling around in a car instead of the camper van?

Lots of options, lots of sums to do.

Good luck with whichever option you choose.

[wfdTamar]

Yes, certainly not decided how best to do it. All the harder because France wont simply allow foreigners to register a vehicle. It's quite an odd policy given that they seem fine with us buying property.

I was also considering that the motorhome/camper option may be a good enough alternative to a house that's why I considered the multi year option, but also it may take a while to look around and decide where to finally buy.

Still not sure if buying the mobile home in the park would work given that I wouldn't be a permanent resident in it.

Also the reason I thought a car would go with mobile home is you can Airbnb or house sit using a car to explore other regions and a car is cheaper than a camper.

I just really needed answers to my initial questions so I could ponder my options. Ta. :-)

[mint]

I don't wish to be throwing a spanner in the works, but have you established with the appropriate authorities how long you can stay in France?

Our Australian neighbours come every year for 3 months and tell me that they cannot stay longer because of visa rules or some such.  Sorry, I have not paid too much attention as I have not wanted to be drawn into all their comings and goings and frustrations of being holiday home owners.

OTOH, I have met another another Australian who has a French partner and they stay for 6 months.  They have mentioned that some special arrangement is possible.

[wfdTamar]

The 90 days is how long Australians (and some others) can be in a Schengen group country in any 180 day period without needing a visa. Longer than that (up to a year) a Long Stay Visa is needed, but my understanding is it's not difficult. Longer than one year requires a residency permit.

You'd have to presume those visa's would be subject to being able to support yourself - all the usual stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

[nomoss]

Back on the subject of buying a van in the UK, very many Australian visitors used to do this, and possibly still do so, creating an active market for camper vans.

This has got to be cheaper than renting privately, without the possible problems of arguing about who is responsible/pays for breakdowns or accidental damage not covered by insurance (like backing into a tree on a camp site), and getting a van which has been rented out, heavily used, and not properly maintained.

There was even a street near the High Commission in London where Australians used to buy and sell their vans. They possibly still do so, there must be some forums/blogs/whatever where these things are discussed.

Your idea of buying a car and using AirB&B may seem to be about the same cost or even cheaper than renting a van, but might not be when the cost of eating is considered. We find that when travelling in our camper van we spend less by preparing some meals in the van, instead of using restaurants. In any case, at our age, we find restaurant meals are usually far too large.

The other advantages, of course, are not being tied down to advance bookings, being free to stay anywhere without planning, and not having to keep getting on line to find accommodation and make reservations.

[wfdTamar]

Yes, I kinda did that in 1989 - well on a Vespa. Did London to Barcelona and back camping all the way. Very nice holiday.

I have a feeling I read somewhere that London street market for vans had been shut down somehow, but no doubt the internet has taken over anyway. A UK reg LHD van is probably the easiest way to do it.

How long a trip do you find you can stand before you go stir crazy?

[YCCMB]

Just putting this out there, but I think that, if you are going to register a vehicle in France it needs to be registered to a permanent address. The problem with mobile home sites and the homes themselves is that, by law, you can't live there for 12 months of the year, so they can't be considered as a permanent address. Some mobile sites won't let you have mail addressed there, so you'd need a PO box.

It's entirely possible that none of this is a problem at all, but you need to investigate.

[wfdTamar]

If that's correct, it rules it out as an option.

[wfdTamar]

Ok, I think a mobile home address is ok if it's a year round site (so it is your permanent address), but for me the sticking point is I would not be a permanent resident in France.

My next idea was a friend that is resident. I thought I could buy the car and she could own it and use it when I'm not there. Problem is she doesn't have a licence! Sod.

What do gypys/Romany people do? Maybe I could find my ancient gypsy dna?

[YCCMB]

If you are SDF in France (without a permanent address) you are still likely to be attached to a particular area (commune de rattachement) and there are organisations who will assist you in obtaining things like vehicle registration documents etc. Usually this will mean using the local Mairie or the address of the assisting organisation for the documents. Since you ask, this is the procedure for "gens du voyage".

You still haven't found a solution though. Even the homeless or those without a permanent address in France are still permanent residents of the country. Which is the key aspect that doesn't apply to you.

[wfdTamar]

Interesting. As far as I know, there's no Romany (I have no idea of the correct terminology, but I think gypsy is not ok) communities in Australia, well, not as recognised as in Europe anyway. The closest we get are hoards of 'grey nomads' - cashed up retirees that sell their house (sometimes), buy a camper or motorhome and spend ages tootling around Australia frittering away their kids inheritance.

The only solution I've come up with so far is a Societe Civile company, but that requires a minimum of 2 people.

[YCCMB]

It does appear that you're hell bent on buying a car or camper and willing to go to whatever lengths (and expense) it involved to make it happen. Have you considered just looking at the alternatives to buying?

It's usually "travellers" by the way. Certainly in English. But the ethnic origin of the travelling population in the UK is more varied than that of mainland Europe.

[Gardengirl]

Does anyone know if renting long-term an apartment/small house would be a possibility? Would that count as a permanent address or doesn’t it work like that?

If that works, an off season rental in an area where the OP’s research shows that it’s a possible future home area could work out nicely; owners have a low income rather than no income and the OP could try living as a local.

[wfdTamar]

Betty - yes I have considered (and still are considering) all sorts of other options. It's funny on another forum the bloke that runs it seems to assume you're a complete dill and haven't thought of the obvious before asking the question you come to the forum to ask. That's pretty common on forums though isn't it? Ask question A, you get answers to questions B-Z.

Among other options I have these ones -

rent,

lease,

buy from a Dutch company that registers it for you,

find another person to set up a Societe Civile company then buy,

buy then register in Bulgaria!,

buy in the UK,

buy french and have a french resident friend register it,

land in France with all my wordly belongings in a big shipping container and say, "Bonjour la France, here I am".

Gardengirl. Renting - it's more to do with how long you're in the country and under what status. Merely renting, even long term (say over 6 months) as a visitor gives you no residency privileges. You have to commit to immigrating (or at least a very long stay) and have a residence before you can even own a car.

Seems kinda crazy considering they let anyone (needs two people) set up a two bob company and buy anything. So not really good security in that (if it's an anti terror thing).

[wfdTamar]

I actually got very close - I have a friend that is a French resident. I said 'how about if I buy a car, you register and own it. I'll use it when I'm in France. The rest of the time you can use it'. She doesn't have a car and therefore is a bit isolated and limited in work options. I thought it could be a good option for us both. Problem is she doesn't have a licence so that's out (unless he gets one).

[wfdTamar]

I actually got very close - I have a friend that is a French resident. I said 'how about if I buy a car, you register and own it. I'll use it when I'm in France. The rest of the time you can use it'. She doesn't have a car and therefore is a bit isolated and limited in work options. I thought it could be a good option for us both. Problem is she doesn't have a licence so that's out (unless she gets one).

[YCCMB]

Bizarrely, I never knew you needed a driving licence to own a car. To drive one, yes, but not to own one. Is it an insurance thing?

[wfdTamar]

You can own it, but not register it (alone). The exception (or way around that) is that you can put another person (that has a drivers licence) on the Carte Gris as the Principal Holder. I thought I was ok there, but that person has to be resident in France! Sacre bleu!

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10477?fbclid=IwAR2buQke-8-uHiYr_n_rtZ7rAP_ADY0vJL4hMtZc8Z6lkQbDfZrYDS7Fp4M

Though if you look at this part of that site it says to prove residence is quite simple (also covers the Traveller issue):

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1028

I wonder if I could simply provide an invoice from a hotel or campsite? Or state I am hosted by my friend.

[EuroTrash]

Used to be that more or less any address would do. Registering a car to a holiday home or a temporary address never used to be an issue. The trouble is that the French system is getting more joined up. There is more to being resident in France than just having an address, you are also expected to have a national insurance number, a taxpayer number etc. The more cross checks the computer does to verify your identify, the fewer loopholes are left open.

I think you are on the right track in looking for a French resident who will agree to help you out by registering and insuring a car and putting you on the insurance policy as a named driver. Does this friend not have another friend who might help?

[nomoss]

[quote user="EuroTrash"] ................ 

I think you are on the right track in looking for a French resident who will agree to help you out by registering and insuring a car and putting you on the insurance policy as a named driver. Does this friend not have another friend who might help?[/quote]

That's a great solution - until something happens to the friend.

We had a problem storing a houseful of furniture while selling one house before buying another.

A good friend, who owned a large farm nearby, where he lived alone, offered to store it for us. He was relatively young, but was found dead in his bed before we got around to taking up his offer.

If we had stored our stuff there we would probably have had no problems in normal circumstances, as there would have been some sort of paperwork or agreement to prove ownership.

But his first wife contested his second wife's right to the inheritance, and the farm was sealed up by the judiciary, with access granted only through a court order, pending the outcome of an undoubtably long legal wrangle.

EDIT:

Proving ownership of a car not registered in your name might be even more difficult. Maybe an IOU to establish a debt would be useful, but this might not be appreciated by your friend.