Registering a business

[Mudman]

My first post !

Situation is that I have a mini-digger, purchased to use on our land/ barn renovation here in the Charente (much cheaper than hiring for long-term work). Am now looking to hire out myself and the machine in order to bring in some much needed pocket money.

Had a v. helpful meeting at the Chambre de Metiers end last year where I was given all the info needed. However I have held back as I was most alarmed by the costs involved - not so much for start up as by the commitment to paying cotisation of 300-400 euros / month.

Quite honestly such a commitment, on top of insurance and other overheads, would make the business marginally profitable at best - have done some trial adverts and demand is not that high; and truthfully I want to keep things small scale. My questions for you good people are:

1) Is there any way of circumventing the commitment to pay cotisation (am already fully signed up with CPAM via form E109 - so no incentive there).

2) Prior to arriving here mid 2001, I was the owner of a busy pub in Angleterre for 6 years, so am thoroughly versed in all aspects of running a business - keeping books etc. Is there any way this experience can be presented to help me avoid having to go through some of the hoops at the Chambre de Metiers.

Any advice gratefully received

Alan

ps: this is an excellent forum. Kudos! 

[Val_2]

Welcome to France and all the bureaucracy of running a business here. It comes as a shock after doing the same in the UK for many years but here you have no choice but to pay social charges and many different assurances if you want to be legally working and trading. Speak to an accountant to see which is the best set up for you personally depending on your projected turnover etc. However, you must register at the Chambre de Metiers in order to get a SIRET number and be TVA registered,without these you won't get a lot of work. As for the Stage de Gestion, again depending on the region,it is obligatory to do and will cost you to do so but you do get a lot of good advice and learn how the systems work here.As for not paying charges in France - forget that idea straight away it just dosn't work because you not only have the usual charges but your pension and invalidité to pay for as well as the CPAM part and social obligations such as Taxe d'Apprentissage and Taxe Professionnel.

[boris]

our chambre de metiers is now running a stage for english with a translator and it is proving to be very successfull

[mascamps.com]

If you already had a private pension scheme in the UK, you don't need to pay into the French scheme courtesy of European law. I think that's the only aspect of French social payments that you can opt out of easily.

 

Arnold

 

[Nick Trollope]

[quote]My first post ! Situation is that I have a mini-digger, purchased to use on our land/ barn renovation here in the Charente (much cheaper than hiring for long-term work). Am now looking to hire out ...[/quote]

Hi

I looked at doing exactly this last year, and I gave up on the idea because;

a) I couldn't register the trailer for my 801 to enable it to tow it behind a French vehicle, so I would have needed to buy a new trailer. (Incedentally, a "normal" French driving licence, or a UK one issued after 1992, does not allow you to tow 2T on the public roads).

b) Insurance was horrendously (3000+E/pa), this is additional to any "state" insurance payments.

c) Disposing of spoil appears very difficult.

d) Driving a JCB is great fun for the first 6 hours, messy and tedious after that.

 

However, social security payments are set at 3000E per annum (for the1st year) payable quarterly, with nothing payable until Q2. It appears that even this is negotiable, if eg. you are not earning anything.

You can bypass the course, but it will probably be quicker to attend. I know a couple of Brits who, completely confused by the course walked out after 1/2 day, and noone cared. I doubt if they would accept runninga pub as being suitable business experience (for travaux public), the "systems" really are so different here.

There is, however, plenty of work for mini-diggers (especially for those with dumpers and/or lorries) throughout France, which of course must tell you something. Don't expect to earn anything like as much as you could in the UK.

Bon chance!

 

 

 

[Mudman]

Thanks for all the useful comments guys - certainly there is much to be considered before setting up in business here.

I do rather get the opinion from your comments, and information trawled from elsewhere on this forum, that those who wish to start a small enterprise here are regarded with what can only be called suspicion by those in authority. Is this why one is made to jump through hoops, and levels of eg. cotisation are set so high - with the fontionaires reasoning that a business declaring "x amount" as income is almost certainly making a lot more in un-declared money, so they are going to make darned sure to get their slice of the cake. I suppose one could see a certain logic to this viewpoint, but in a country with such high unemployment levels, one would have thought that a little more state support and encouragement to individuals starting out and wishing to contribute to the economic life of the country, would ultimately pay dividends.

Before leaping merrily into the delights of running my own business, I intend to explore the possibility of linking up with a local business already established in this field, with the idea of maybe sub-contracting through them. Don't yet know if this will be a)possible or b)financially advantageous. Whichever I'm sure it won't be that simple!. I'll be sure and let you all know.

Alan

[Later]

Alan

I wonder if a Micro-Bic isn't the answer for you?  There is a move afoot to make it easier for small business start-ups and maybe it's not as bad as you think it will be -although I reckon it's at least twice as expensive to run a business in France as it is in the UK.

[Miki]

Micro Bic itself, is a tax regime not a choice to register a business, although once registered it could be used as your chosen form of taxation (if allowable) at the tax office.