Shirley B Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 This is my very first posting to the forum. I am hoping for advice to assist with our plans. We are actively looking (and will be visiting during February) at fishing lakes within the Pays de la Loire and surrounding regions. It is our hope to purchase something, with or without a property, that we can develop to offer fishing holidays. We do realise that there are many of these types of holidays already available in France, however, we are optimistic that the market could stand one more!!.We have a budget of around £250,000 but that would have to buy us an income and also perhaps a small property to live in, or we could, as recommended by some, rent a home until the business was settled. We also have some income coming from other property that we own overseas, but not quite enough to pay all the bills - I understand that living in France on the whole is really no cheaper than the UK.I am sure that there is someone out there that could give us advice - any comments would be more than welcome. We wish to try and be realistic and go into this venture with our eyes fully open.We are fairly desperate to escape the congestion and rat-race of the South East of England, but not so desperate as to buy or invest in something with little or no chance of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickKnipfler Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 There was a programme on the other day about a couple that had set up a business like this in Brittany and were doing quite well.My partner is into horses and we are considering buying an equestrian property with some water and offering liveries and fishing. I'm wondering if there are any geographical constraints. Do you think most anglers would only consider northern France?Does anybody know what red tape is involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorhead Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 What kind of fishing are you on about? For instance a lot of the lakes available are completely unsuitable for trout.It's currently quite possible to make a living from this but the fishing has to be really top knotch. There is a big difference between a hole in the ground with water in it and a good angling facility. Never buy anything without a full water test and also take some swabs from the indiginous fish to see if they've got anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickKnipfler Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Absolutely. I'm really considering carp fishing. I think the guy in the documentary I saw invested £40k in fish. I wouldn't want to do that without being sure about the environment I was putting them into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eslier Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I have read that a lot of rivers / lakes in France have common fishing rights and you have to be careful or you may find all the locals coming along and enjoying the fishing on your private land and there is nothing you can do about it. I can't give you anything definite about this, I just remember reading about it a year or so ago. I'm sure it doesn't cover all water but it would be worth checking into before you buy somewhere - better safe than sorry !Regarding setting up any business in France, I would strongly recommend that you prepare a detailed cashflow analasys before you get too far down the road, not forgetting to include all the social charges etc. that you will have to pay - even before you have an income. A French accountant will be able to assist you through setting up your business and provide invaluable advice. It is important to get everything right from the outset. Remember that you cannot commence trading, which includes advertising your business, until your business has been registered.It may all sound quite complicated, and it is, but with the right professional advice, and careful research it is all quite possible.Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickKnipfler Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Thanks,At the moment, I'm only in "investigation mode"Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorhead Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Rivers and lakes with rivers going through them are pretty much public property. Enclosed lakes are usually private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorhead Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 It sounds right that the government would want a piece of the action.However if it's got a river (as opposed to a small brook or ditch) running into it would almost certainly also have one flowing out as well which would make it public also something like that would be quite a sizeable stretch of water and it would be hard to imagine any one single person owning all the land right round it.http://www.bigbobsbb.com/about.htm Is the site of a guy who seems to know about running carp fishing holidays and he doesn't even have his own lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambornecarper Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 hi nice idea one I have had for some time. I believe that I know the business you are talking about, as I also watched the program. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that it is now up for sale and it is indicated that the takings are in the region of 45k per year plus on top of that extra for food drink and tackle/bait. It appears that it is not enough for them to survive on. unless of coarse they have lost the inclination to carry on with the dream. see http://www.sandersonproperty.co.uk/?subj=Fisheries+For+Sale I run a business in the uk at the moment and know that it is not all plain sailing , unless you are a very high flier. I have heard that french taxes are fairly steep, I myself find it tough going over here with our taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 That one sounds too small for the one that was on TV doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambornecarper Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I visit their site a couple of times a week to check whats coming out and size and although there are a few good fish coming out they do not appear to gettoo many fisherman going at the oment it seems that no one is there this week and this should be now a fairly busy time for them . perhaps they are just not posting the catches but judging by the way they usually update it I thnik maybe they are quiet the last couple of weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambornecarper Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Back on topic I think it is a great idea but I wouldnt take on a large mortgauge or any other debts to fund the dream. have a good look on the web at all the other lakes/fisheries. then add a few more and you will get some indication as to what you are up against. I would reckon that half the carp angling population in the uk want to do what we want to but . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambornecarper Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 at the moment there is a nice looking lake at http://www.fisheries4sale.com/index.htm the blue lake 27 acres odd I would just love to get this one but it is expensive http://www.le-beau-lacs.com/ probaly the best way would be to buy property and lake seperately it seems the cheapest way. but of coarse then you have to start up the business and get all the permissions for fishing etc. so it could take quite a while to get the fishery up and running. have you looked at all the sites with fisheries for sale etc there are some good bargins to be had. but some times you wonder why are they so cheap. perhaps some are too deep some too shallow etc. I have been keeping an eye on the market and lakes for sale for about 18 mths now one particular lake in charente had been on the market for all of that time it started at 90000 euros and evntually ended up at 29000. 4.5 acres land 2.5 acre lake?? in that time it appears to have been sold then came back on the marhet again but as far as I can see it has been sold or taken off at present. it was on with sandersons lost www. at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 The fisheries for sale sites (based in the UK) like the one you mention and also one other obvious one, are the worst places to look for lakes, in my opinion - they offer lakes at vastly inflated prices compared to the prices they are offered at by French immobiliers - which themselves inflate the prices asked by the notaires. This is not necessarily because they are selling 'established fisheries' either - just that they are targeting the UK market which expect silly prices for lakes. If you want to buy a lake of whatever size, then the best bet is to contact notaire's directly or to keep any eye out on the French freeads sites or even with the immobiliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambornecarper Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 yes I think you are correct cut out the middle men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehe Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Hi, have just come accross your postings on finding and running a carp lake and as we are in the process of doing the same I will add my findings on the subject.Firstly, the most expensive way of setting up a business is to buy someone else's failure - it is not often that successful carp fishing businesses come on to the open market as those in the know will have snapped them up first.In our experience you will have to be in-situ in France and in regular contact with agents and notaires to get first offer on any new property that comes onto the market.You will find that most 'likely' lakes will turn out to be totally unsuitable once you have visited them. To find a lake with a house is very difficult (we have been very,very lucky) and unless you have a very substantial sum to invest it can be an almost impossible task.It is possible to find houses with small lakes of a couple of acres but the business potential of this size of lake is rather limited. It is interesting that of the established business's that come on the market the vast majority are the very small ones. The limited potential of a small lake plus the problem with maintaining healthy stock levels will always limit the return on investment such a property offers.As previous postings have indicated,it is vital that you have the status of any lake under consideration fully clarified. Any pre-napolionic lake automatically has 'private' status but many other lake owners have found to their cost that failure to ensure the lake is fully private can impact on the viability of the business. As you will have noted, Clearwater lakes (No Going Back) does not have 'private' status and the owner has to pay £40 per angler,per week in license fees.You will also find that many of the lakes viewed will turn out to not have sufficient depth (we looked at a lovely lake in Mayenne that on testing the depths from a boat turned out to be no more than 1 foot of water and 2 foot of silt over 80% of its 10 acres),however if the rest of the property it acceptable it is possible to have the depth sorted out - but at a price. On our largest lake we have decided to deepen the shallows and remove some silt and although a messy job requiring a partial draindown of the lake the cost is not prohibitive when one considers the extra fishable (earning) water provided.We have found our 'dream' property in Indre - this is after living in Limousin for a couple of months viewing every lake we could find so they are out there but just need finding.Good luck in your venture and if I can help in any way then just drop me an e.mail. Regards,Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Was the program on the TV about 'Clearwater Lakes' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirley B Posted October 26, 2005 Author Share Posted October 26, 2005 [quote]This is my very first posting to the forum. I am hoping for advice to assist with our plans. We are actively looking (and will be visiting during February) at fishing lakes within the Pays de la Loi...[/quote]I am eternally grateful to all of the members who have so kindly responded with information and advice on my question of some time ago, so I thought that I should update you.We purchased 12 acres with a 2.5 lake at the end of February this year (completion of purchase finalised in June). We were lucky enough to find the land in a private ad on the web and it came with planning permission to build a house and was also far far cheaper than anything that we had seen in the specialised agents advertisements. We have now sold in the UK and, fingers crossed, will be off to France (near Chateau Gontier & Laval) in about 2 months time. I was also extremely lucky to find an incredibly reasonable rental house for a year, whilst ours is being built.We will spend the coming year developing some business ideas that we have and also I am able to take my employment with me and as we will have no mortgage, we should (quite a big should) be able to survive quite well. The lake is to be extended to 5 acres and the cost of doing this is quite reasonable, we will also make certain areas a bit deeper. There are carp already in the lake but they are small, so we will add a few larger ones and wait......... about 3-4 years according to my fishermen brothers!.We have no desire to make a fortune, but to enjoy a less stressful way of life and escape from the 9-5 and traffic of the UK. We love the UK but need a new challenge and would have to be millionaires to be able to afford the same here in the UK.We are under no illusion about the difficulties that we will face - we have some extremely knowledgeable family and friends and if this whole thing falls flat, then it will not be for the lack of trying.With a lot hard work and some luck thrown in, I hope to be able to post our successful progress on the site.Thanks once again for all your input. Please don't stop the advice - every single little bit will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehe Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Hi Shirley, have e.mailed you with some info. that you may find useful. Regards,Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirley B Posted November 28, 2005 Author Share Posted November 28, 2005 Thanks for your message Debra. The land came with planning permission for a house anyway, so we will built there. We are able to, as you say, add 20sq.mtr buildings (which we can utilise as shower/toilet facilities for the fishermen. As for static caravans, I am not sure at this time, but we probably wont need them anyway. Regards. Shirley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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