help ref msa, cpam

[kevem]

ok i posted a while back as we are self employed but only work 2 or 3 days a week, we are with msa who told s we needed to work 1200 hours a year to be with them, what ever that meant, we have cotesations of alomsot 700 euros every 3 months which is a lot qwhen we also have other bills and taxes to pay. we did not cover the hours last year as i gave birth had a few complications and so kevin could not work the 3 days a week every week. we do not plan on woring more than 3 days as we do not have a mortgae  ect  and did not move hre so kevin had to work and not see the children grow up. we went to see msa today who said we should fgo sign on at job centere and claim rmi. i am not happy with this as do not like ide of getting money for nothing.  what i am asking is what can we do, he is a registered artisan doing gardening, we do not need to be a artisdan as the wok he has is all we need so not looking to get any more work . can he deregister as artisan and just go a a general handyman gardener?

do w have to be with msa or can we go with pcpam?

what cotesations do we opay cpam if we go with the.

i am not after free health care in any way i know i have to pay somebody but surly if we are not working the hours we should not be paying 700 every 3 months or am i wrong.

thans emma

[shimble]

unfortunately high social charges are what destroy many small businesses. if you can get rmi go for it, although i have been recently refused as my girlfriend is employed, why not ask the cpam what their charges will be, you may find they will be more or less the same, apparantly artisan liberale is one of the less expensive methods of beeing self employed but you need to get better advise than i can give.

 if you deregister your health care should continue for three years without having to pay your coitisations, however i have been recently informed that this is likely to be reduced to one year and after which you would need to be registered as unemployed to get basic minimal cover.

i had the same problem running a business, after three years the taxes and social charges took far to much of my money. i chose to stop working self employed, putting myself in the position to either seek work on salary or do something else, i am much happier, less stressed and apart from the dreaded declaration de revenue, that still hasnt arrived, have reduced my outgoings enormously. aswell as this i have been eligeable for refunds on some of my social charges. this could all go horribly wrong when i get my declaration de revenue but they cant have what i havent got.

unfortunately social charges have to be paid whether you earn the money or not. i ended up in the same vicious circle i needed money to pay the bills so i had to work more to do so, the bills got paid my income went up so the bills got more expensive. in the end i felt as if i was working for the state and not myself.

i dont know how long you have been registered but the second and third year are more difficult

i know this doesnt help very much but dont dig yourself deeper into a deep hole

dont think of it as getting money for nothing, if you can use the social system. you have invested in france you have paid your bills and kept no doubt far too many office workers comfortable in their offices while they eat out in the restaurant everyday with free meal tickets.

it seems very much the case of the worker keeping the beauracracy in comfortable employement

 

[Charlotte3]

Hi Emma,

Here is some advice from someone who has been employed as a gardener, but now is'nt (if you see what I mean)..

If you are registered as working on the land eg. gardening, farmer, nursery worker etc you have no choice, your healthcare is with MSA. It does'nt matter if you are self emlooyed or salaried, it's MSA.  CPAM is for everyone else. ALL landworkers in France are with MSA.

You say he registered as an artisan, who is he registered with, Chambre de Commerce or Chambre des Metiers? It acually won't make any difference, it's his tax regime that might make a difference ie. micro commerce etc.?

You don't have to sign as unemployed to claim RMI, and you don't register as unemployed at the jobcentre anyway - you're being pointed in the wrong direction here.

How good is your French?

If your earnings are below a certain level and you can prove this, then you are entitled to apply for RMI. You have paid in to the system and you are certainly entitled to claim something back, so don't feel bad about it. You would be doing exactly what every French family would do in the same circumstances!

I could go on and on, but without knowing your (very) personal circumstances  it's difficult to help. I understand it's difficult to bare your soul to strangers, but we've all been there and there is certainly no shame in needing help sometimes.

Send me an email if you would prefer, I will try to help.

Aly

 

[shimble]

just out of interest what is the level of earnings per household that is considered eligeable for rmi. ie not more than x euros? 

[Charlotte3]

Hi there Shimble,

Hope this helps.....

Montant maximum de l'allocation depuis le 1er janvier 2007 :

Nombre d'enfants	Personne seule	En couple
0	440,86 EUR	661,29 EUR
1	661,29 EUR	793,55 EUR
2	793,55 EUR	925,81 EUR
Par enfant supplémentaire	Plus 176,34 EUR	Plus 176,34 EUR

If you have more than this coming in per month, you get nowt, if less you get the difference (assuming you qualify, of course)

Aly

[mickey jim]

Kevem

We are also with the MSA and were told that we needed to work more than 1200 hrs per year to get full MSA benefits.  We could stay with them below this, but would not get full benefits (carte vitale etc).  However, when I asked what we needed to do to confirm our hours each year we were told just to keep a note of them (I think you just put it on the tax form at the end of the year?).  On the whole, our charges are daily - the length of day can vary from 8am-7pm to 9am-5pm depending on the job and the client, so each day can vary from 10hrs - 7hrs and noone can prove it apart from what we note down for our own benefit, also there was no comment about travelling time/quoting for work/accounts/maintenance of machinery etc etc - can this not go towards the 1200 hours too??  How on earth does a farmer keep note of his time otherwise?.  Does anyone else have experience of how this works??

I'm a bit worried that the person you spoke to at the MSA was not being particularly helpful with you.  If there's no way you can get up to the 1200hrs, is there anyway they can put you on the lower hours just for the time being??  I do think you ought to have a meeting with them to clarify exactly what they can do for you.  That's the only way you'll know whether to move from them or not.

We are registered to do other things apart from gardening, but we have gardening as our main activity.  If the balance changes, ie you can prove that the 'other' work takes up more of your time than gardening, I believe you can then change to the CPAM.  But I think you have to prove it. 

Unfortunately, this sounds just like another way in which the system is so rigid, it actually encourages people not to work, even if it is to pay a little bit of money back to social security - surely that's better than nothing ... 

Good luck,