Nightmare Scenario?

[Monika]

I am quite cross with one of my relatives in Switzerland who managed to frighten me into several sleepless nights. Before I angrily tell him off I want to put it to the forum for advice.

On telling him that we are having a house renovated and extended in France and having it supervised by a Project Manager he got quite upset and told me that employing a Firm, an Architect or a Project Manager who subcontracts the work is very dangerous because if they don't pay the employed Artisans, the Artisans can claim part of the house. He told me to urgently employ a notaire to make sure all the bills are paid or call an urgent site meeting with all artisans and the project manager to find out if they have been paid. Is he right? Can this really happen?

[Loiseau]

Has the project manager got a stash of your money upfront to pay them with, then?  Or is he to tell you when each stage is completed properly and then *you* write the cheque? 
If it's the former, then I can see that you need to have total confidence that the PM is scrupulously honest and will handle your money as carefully as if it were his own.
In the latter case, it's surely up to you when the artisans get paid.

Angela

[Nick Trollope]

Broadly speaking, Project Managers don't employ the contractors, the manage them. So it is normal for the Client to pay the Artisans directly, on the approval of the PM. Sometimes the PM will handle the cheques & invoices, but cheques will be made out to the contractor. Likewise deposits.

If your PM is taking your money, discuss it with him, as, as your relative points out, the Artisans may come after you (read will) if they don't get paid, for any reason. It is not like the States, however - in as much that it is much harder to obtain a lien over property.

 

[Monika]

So my relative might not be so wrong! We employ a firm who employs all the Artisans, we pay the firm (most of it in advance). Surely though, hundreds of people employ Building firms who subcontract work, should they not all be warned as a matter of urgency that they could forfeit their house if the Artisans are not paid. One bit of consolation Nick,  that is is not as easy as in the States.

[Catalpa]

If you personally have no signed contract / devis with the artisans direct, I don't see that it's you they could come after... though they might want to. Logically, they will have presented devis to the project management company and project management company will have signed them. Have you a signed contract with the project management company and do you pay against detailed factures issued by the PM company? In other words, is it obvious from the factures that your payments are for specific chunks of work by artisans as opposed to what could be interpreted as a bloody enormous project management fee? [blink]

In your situation, I'd want to talk to... someone... Notaire? avocat who deals with property disputes? to check what you would be liable for if the firm you're contracted with didn't pay or went into liquidation. If you have a contract with the project management firm, is there any small print in that which might shed light on the worst case scenario? Another route might be, if you know your artisans, ask them if they're being / have been paid.

I really don't think you should be panicking at this stage (like over this weekend!) [:)] but I do think for your own peace of mind you do need to establish the facts as soon as possible.

 

[Monika]

We pay against detailed devis/invoices from Management Firm and have no devis or contract from/with the employed Artisans.(We don't have a contract with the Management firm, only devis).  I am a little reluctant to get the advice of a Notaire, as all this is surely just one of these things, where somebody wants to scare you. Surely this could only happen in very rare circumstances and as you say Catalpa there is no need to panick at this stage.

[Beryl]

Sent you a pm.