Electricity to the bathroom

[Orion]

I am a litlle confused by the Regs for electricity in the bathroom.  I understand that a seperate circuit is required.

Does this mean that I need a seperate circuit for each bart/showeroom or can I put more than one on the same circuit.

Do I have to have this a seperate circuit only if I have an electric socket or electric heated towel rail in that bathroom or do I have to have a seperate lighting circuit as well?

Any electricians out there able to help (e.g Punch)?

Thanks in advance

Bill

[Paul_Gyn]

Any and all electricity supplied to a bathroom MUST be protected by a 30mA ELCB, there would be no problem with feeding more than one bath/shower room from the same breaker - provided it is current rated for the total potential consumption, provided you are happy with the situation whereby a fault in one bathroom would black out all of them. In practice, this shouldn't be a problem with a properly installed installation (sorry need a better adjectival clause but I'm tired).

So you feed the individual disjoncteurs for the lighting, the power etc. after the 30mA ELCB. and you are covered.

There is, of course, no reason why you shouldn't protect the whole house with a 30mA ELCB provided it can carry the current. Mine is rated for 40A and happily looks after a little house of 3 rooms and outbuildings.

Meanwhile back in the bathrooms.... you are going to respect the various zones, aren't you?

paul

[Moulin]

Bill

 

First, you can’t put standard electrical sockets in bathrooms!

 

All circuits in a Bathroom i.e. Lighting, Shaver Socket, and Heating etc. must be separate from each other and fed through an RCD. They must also be separate from any other part of the house. It’s particularly important not to feed the lights from the main house circuit as these are normally fed from the ‘direct’ side of the fusebox to avoid being plunged into darkness by ‘nuisance tripping’ of the RCD. To avoid a blackout at an in-opportune moment bathroom lights can be fed directly via there own RCDMCB if you prefer.

 

On a general note, I read an article in the Daily Mail this week about a new EU directive which will prohibit DIY electrical work in ‘high risk’ areas, i.e. Kitchens, Bathrooms and Gardens as from January. The British government are bringing in measures to enforce this but I have no idea if the French have done / will do the same.

 

Moulin  

[Dave&Olive]

just asking but how come 99% of french bathrooms have a washing machine in them     

[Punch]

[quote]I am a litlle confused by the Regs for electricity in the bathroom. I understand that a seperate circuit is required. Does this mean that I need a seperate circuit for each bart/showeroom or can I p...[/quote]

Bill,

Firstly there are strict regulations in bathrooms and shower rooms. The room is divided into seperate zones, 0,1,2 & 3, and only certain equipment is allowed in certain zones.

There is no requirement for a seperate circuit in bathrooms as such. The main criteria is to make sure all circuits are covered by the 30 milliamp disjonctuer differentielle (RCD) as already mentioned, and that lighting, and power circuits are protected by the correct size breaker or fuse and are wired according to the regs. In some instances it can be good practice to have seperate circuits, but not obligatory and it is not often done in my experience. Modern RCD's if using the correct type, type AC or type A, rarely nuisance trip nowadays anyway.

Contrary to some peoples beliefs, socket outlets ARE allowed in bathrooms, but not in zones 0, and 1. They are only allowed in zone 2 if transformer seperated.  No problem in zone 3, which is basically more than 60 cm away from the bath or shower and up to 2.25M high.

Just a small point about Moulins last paragraph. I think this is appertaining to the new UK regulations called "Part P", wherby all alterations and electrical installations have to now be certified. UK based sparkies will soon have to be registered to self certify their work.

I hope this helps,

Punch

 

 

 

 

 

[Dick Smith]

It's a bit dodgy to get stories about the EU from the Daily Mail...

Question - we have a light over our bathroom hand basin - it is designed precisely to be that - and it has an outlet at one end for a shaver etc. From what Paul says, that is illegal, yes? But currently on sale - where else but over the washbasin would you put a small striplight?

[Paul_Gyn]

[quote]It's a bit dodgy to get stories about the EU from the Daily Mail...Question - we have a light over our bathroom hand basin - it is designed precisely to be that - and it has an outlet at one end for a...[/quote]

Just off to IKEA to research kitchen, and will look up the chapter-and-verse about what is interdit in which zones when I get back, but my from my experience in the last house, I bought (in the UK) one of those combined light and shaver socket units for each of our bathrooms. They are double insulated (so therefore have no earth) and the only observation the inspector from Consuel had was to insist I made a sticker to go next to the shaver socket with the double insulated logo and the words 'rasoir seulement'  on it!

If you look at the earlier posting about can you or can't you bury gaines in a wall there is a link to a M. Bricolage site, and a t the bottom of the extract there is the diagram of what the various zones in a SdeB are.

More info later....

p

[Punch]

[quote]It's a bit dodgy to get stories about the EU from the Daily Mail...Question - we have a light over our bathroom hand basin - it is designed precisely to be that - and it has an outlet at one end for a...[/quote]

Question - we have a light over our bathroom hand basin - it is designed precisely to be that - and it has an outlet at one end for a shaver etc. From what Paul says, that is illegal, yes? But currently on sale - where else but over the washbasin would you put a small striplight?

Hi Dick,

I think you may have misinterpreted my previous post.

Striplights over handbasins with socket outlets incorporated are perfectly legal in a bathroom. The main criteria in bathrooms is the distance from bath or shower ( not sink) and the zones.

Without going into the technical details of each zone, if the striplight above the sink incorporates a socket outlet, and the ensemble is within zone 2, or less, then the socket should be wired via a safety isolating transformer, (which is usually sited in the striplight unit itself.) You would not know this unless you took the casing off the striplight. If the striplight is in zone three, then it can be a standard socket. There are several versions of striplights, with and without sockets and transformers, eachh having it's own application.

I hope this makes more sense

regards,

Paul 

 

 

[Paul_Gyn]

Here are the salle de bain zones and what is allowed/interdit in each one :

I'm not sure if it's true, coincidence, or mythical, but I believe the implimentation (or at least the enforcement) of the zones (and these are actually a revision), stems from the outcry following the death of the singer Claude Francois who was electricuted whilst standing in his bath changing a lightbulb.

 

Les salles d'eau sont soumises à une réglementation très stricte. L'appareillage électrique autorisé autour des points d'eau est segmenté en plusieurs classifications. Volume 0 (ou immergé) Tout matériel électrique interdit sauf le matériel très spécial alimenté en Très Basse Tension de Sécurité sous 12 volts (Installation par spécialiste, uniquement). Volume 1 (sur baignoire ou receveur de douche) Matériel TBTS 12 Volts et chauffe-eau électrique à accumulation (Installation par spécialiste uniquement). Volume 2 (60 cm autour de la baignoire ou du receveur) En plus du matériel admis dans le volume 1 : les appareils fixes de la classe II (luminaire, convecteur), protégés par un différentiel haute sensibilité (30 mA) ainsi qu'un socle de prise de courant alimenté par transformateur de séparation, de puissance maximum 50 VA (pour rasoir). Ces matériels porteront la marque NF. L'armoire de toilette classe 2, avec éclairage, interrupteur et prise rasoir intégrés est autorisée si elle est contrôlée par un dispositif différentiel Haute Sensibilité et si la prise rasoir est alimentée au moyen d'un transformateur de séparation de faible puissance. Volume 3 (2, 4m au-delà du volume 2) En plus des matériels admis dans le volume 2 : - les appareils alimentés en TBTS jusqu'à 50 volts; - les appareils de classe I reliés à la terre et protégés par différentiels HS 30 mA; - les appareils alimentés individuellement par un transformateur de séparation; - les socles de prise de courant (2 pôles + terre) protégés par différentiel HS.

[Dick Smith]

Thanks, Paul P, that makes good sense (I think - I'm always hazy on electrics) so if I manage to make a circuit in the washbasin the unit trips quickly enough to save my sorry a***e?

Paul G - he was standing in the bath changing a lightbulb, eh? That's one for the Darwin awards!