Permis/declaration

[bixy]

Right, deep breath, I know these topics have been covered many times but having done a search I can't find what I need and I know no-one except the mairie can give me a definitive answer BUT some general guidance would be very helpful. We are going to put a couple of rooms and a bathroom in our grenier. This will also involve putting in veluxes. What I would like to know is is this likely to involve a permis de construire, with architects drawings etc or a declaration de travaux? I know there's a magic figure of 170 sq.m. involved but not entirely sure what this is.

All help gratefully received.

Patrick

[Nick Trollope]

... Sharp exhalation......

OK, if the modifications to your house take the total liveable surface area to over 170M2 (there are all sorts of regs about what counts as liveable space), then you will need an architect to draw plans, sign them off (and most usefully, tho' not obligatory, get the permission needed, which will be Permis de Construire).

If otherwise, then you will need a D de T for the Veluxes.

Your local taxes will increase - any excuse....

I never do searches. Everybody implies that it doesn't work...

HTH!

 

[Will]

You don't say where you are and haven't filled in your profile, so I can't be definite. However, we are finding in our own département and neighbouring départements that whereas previously a declaration de travaux for the velux windows would have sufficed for the work you want to do, people are being asked to fill in a full permis de construire giving before-and-after floor plans etc. Whether you can do this yourself or whether architect's drawings are needed depends on the magic 170m² figure.

So I'm afraid you are right - the only way you can find out for sure is to ask the mairie (but even so your local DDE might come back subsequently asking for more information, as we have found here)

[BJSLIV]

The rules are as they have always been.

From the Government website.

Shortcuts will always be taken, but they might lead to problems later on.

Le permis de construire est exigé, sur l'ensemble du territoire:

• pour tous les travaux de construction à usage d'habitation ou non, y compris les constructions ne comportant pas de fondations, 

• pour les travaux portant sur des constructions existantes qui ont pour effet d'en changer la destination, d'en modifier l'aspect extérieur ou leur volume ou de créer des niveaux supplémentaires.

  Sont exemptés du permis de construire mais soumis à déclaration préalable,

  certaines constructions ou travaux de faible importance, notamment: 

  • les travaux qui ne changent pas la destination d'une construction et ne créent pas de surface nouvelle, 

  • les piscines non couvertes. 

     

[bixy]

Thanks for your replies. I'm in 58 Will. So, you seem to be saying that if we are below the magic 170, which we clearly will be, then even if we need the full permis, it would be ok to submit plans by a non-architect. Have I got that right? [You can see where I'm going with this - trying to save enormous architects fees!]

Patrick

[Dunton4]

[quote]Thanks for your replies. I'm in 58 Will. So, you seem to be saying that if we are below the magic 170, which we clearly will be, then even if we need the full permis, it would be ok to submit plans by...[/quote]

Patrick, don't know if this will help, but we are also planning to put an extra bedroom and en-suite into our grenier, with a couple of extra Velux windows.  We have had plans drawn up for our own benefit (not by an architect) and the proposed work will keep us within the 170sqm limit.  We popped into the Mairie yesterday to show them our plans and ask for advice (we are in 27) and were told that our comprehensive, but non-architect drawn plans and photos were more than acceptable and that we only needed a Declaration de Travaux, rather than the Permis de Construire we had anticipated.  Don't know if that helps you at all. 

Regards,

 

Sue

[bixy]

Thanks Sue. While, of course, every case is different, not to mention every mairie, it certainly gives me hope that I can avoid a very expensive architect!

Patrick

[Will]

Sorry, I missed your last question. If the total habitable floor area of your house(with headroom more than a certain height, I think it's 2m) is less than 170m² you can submit your own plans. Above this and the plans have to be signed off by an architect. But be guided by what your mairie and DDE ask for.

[Dunton4]

An update.  Having discussed what we were told at the Mairie about only needing a Declaration with the guy who is project-managing for us, he advises that we still submit a Permis, because he fears our application will be returned to us if only a Declaration is submitted.  He thinks the lady at the Mairie was optimistic about what we would need.  I think this is the same point that Will made earlier in this thread.  Still, no doubt about not needing Architect's plans if it's under 170 sqm!

Good luck with your plans.

 

Sue

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Sue,

I suggest you ask your project manager to go and talk to the Mairie to reassure himself. I know that if I were the maire's secretary and had said "Do this", and my "administré" went and did the opposite, I'd be peeved. (thought.... why did they ask me?) Dare I suggest that they have probably had a few other cases of your type through their hands and know what the local DDE do in such cases.

Seriously, my first thought was to reply "Bad project manager, change the project manager"!! You ain't going to change the Mairie!

[Dunton4]

Yes, Ian, I take your point.  The reason we went to the Mairie in the first place was to try to create a good impression and do things the right way, so wouldn't want to cause offence by ignoring their advice.  We have agreed with our PM to complete both Declaration and Permis and for our PM to check with them which they want.  Re our PM, he was speaking from his personal experience and was only trying to save us unnecessary delay .  Don't think I'll change him just yet .

 

Thanks for your advice, which I appreciate, being a novice at these relationship issues with the Mairie .

Sue

[BJSLIV]

Depends how time critical things are, if you can put up with a couple of months delay if/when the DdT is rejected by the DDE why not go for the Declaration. If things are more time critical I would submit the Permis application at the start.