planning permission Do we need permission ?

[Bill]

good morning one and all,

we may be taking the plunge and buying.

the previous owner had some big plans, and had planning permssion for all sorts of things, but isnt paying the fee , so the permission will lapse.

our ideas are much simpler , its to repair whats there.. eg replace two ground floors , floors, windows, install two bathrroms, and new doors, internal and one external , rewire and replumb, all in accordance with the local specifications/rules/tradesmen . BUT do we need planning permssion to do any of that ? they are just repairs ? ??? I dont think we do.. thoughts please

EVENTUALLY we may turn an outside building into habitable room, and can apply for that in years to come..

best wishes

Bill

[andyh4]

Hard to say Bill without knowing all the fine details, but my first reaction was "installing 2 bathrooms" and "just repairs" are not the same thing.  Replacing 2 bathrooms yes, installing no.

 

Anything that affects the external appearance could well be subject to permission*.  Anything that increases the internal habitable area available will require at least a declaration; as will changing the number of bathrooms.

 

* In some area this could even include changing the colour of painted woodwork.

[Bill]

thanks andy : noted.

we are over 175 sq metere as well.. HUM HAA that means an archtect... blow me down.. (not being allowed to curse on line ! )

rgds Bill

[Gyn_Paul]

I think you misunderstand AndyH4's post.

A declairation (or whatever the old Declairation d traveaux is now called) doesn't need plans attached, and is appropriate for anything changing the external appearance of habitable buildings (so a Velux in a roof, for example, would fall into that category).

Applying for full Permi de construire, of course, would require proper plans (given your sqm).

 

Are these new bathrooms making use of existing windows for their light, are they en-suites, or are you planning to pierce the walls and add new ones?

In all but the last case, you are free to muck about to your heart's content (unless you are in a monument historique of course), provided that when you've finished you request, fill in and return an H1 form, as you will be liable for an increase in your taxe d'habitation .

Also, this outside building you have your eye on to convert one day. Is it attached to the house? Is it on the same parcel number on your plan cadastral? If yes to both of the above, it - de facto - carries a certificate of urbanism so you can convert it, subject to the land mass ratio (but reading between the lines of your original post it sounds like land area isn't an issue).

Yes, you would need plans and a proper P de C, but unless it's outlandishly palacial it needn't be either daunting or hugely expensive. Just a case of finding the right architect.

p

[Bill]

Thankyou for the reply,.

we are not intending to add windows, or to increase the overall space within the building.

Nor listed nor near to a listed building.

One bathroom will be on suite and therefore will go thru an internal wall , I am sure its not load bearing. Will anyway have a builder in

The outside building is attached, and one day is some time away. Landhouse ratio noted.

what sort of ""minor" thing would kick off a permi de consruction.. ? we are really not changing much, more like serious repairs and re arrangements,...eg kitchen moving.. Not expanding into the loft.

The fosse is a whole new ball game and I understand we have to get a specialist company in..

rgds Bill

[Gyn_Paul]

New windows, new (or substantially bigger) doorways, new garden/perimeter walls, sheds, verandas, sunken swimming pools (actually that one might well be a PdeC now) - all these sort of things need (or at least needed when I did my PdeC a few years ago) you to declare the work. Internal work on existing rooms does not require either a permis de construire or a declaration.

Actually a Velux window in a house attic is a good example: you are not changing the function of the structure (it's still a roof) nor are you adding to the sqm of the living area of the building, but you are altering the appearance of the building, and you are changing the use of the room inside (no window = attic = storage area: with window = habitable room, hence change of tax liability).

But as for the rest, as I said earlier, you are quite entitled to change the layout, and function of the habitable rooms of the house to your heart's content without need of anyone's permission.

The H1 form requires you to declare the brut and net dimentions of the property and the function of the various rooms within it. The tax authorities use it to calculate (excuse me, that should read, 'use it as a jumping off point to invent..' ) your Taxe d'Habitation. But since the tax man doesn't know when you started on the work, let alone when you finished it, it's up to you to ask him to send you one.

Now then, what's that Shakespeare quotation ? " more honoured in the breech than in the observance" ?   Yes, that was it.

p

[Bill]

Thanks again Paul, all crystal clear.

as an aside.. tax... with the french heading for austerity.. are there any taxes in the pipeline aimed at holiday homes.. ?

we are not resident.

I bet when it comes to Austerity the builders will not of heard of the word as they stuff their bill full of this and that !

rgds Bill

[Gyn_Paul]

Provided you're resident for tax purposes somewhere in the EU, then I haven't heard of anything.... yet. The real sting comes with the CGT when you sell a maison des vancances !  Of course that assumes you actually make a G to be T'd on. Not always a forgone conclusion these days.

p

[halfblind]

Any changes made to the building will affect the taxe fonciere, not the taxe d'habitation. You will have a 2 yr "holiday" from the tax from the date you return the H1 form.

[Bill]

thanks, two years holiday as well, cant be bad :)

[BIG MAC]

I thought CGT did not apply after 5 years?

[Hoddy]

It's fifteen years at the moment, but it's changing soon - look at the thread about selling second homes in La Rochelle.

Hoddy

[Gyn_Paul]

No, on a second home CGT* is liable for 15 years After the first five it decreases by 10% per annum until it's gone completely by year 15. Up to year 5 you can offset (certain) artisan's invoices for work done on the property against the CGT liability, but  - theoretically - it's a flat rate % discount thereafter. Although having said that, when I sold my previous maison secondaire  at year 10, the Notaire asked for all the invoices we had for the renovations and ultimately knocked  about 6,000 euros off the bill.

As you can imagine, I didn't stop to question it but just did a cartoon *whoosh* with the cheque to the nearest bank !

p

* The rates applicable when we sold a few years ago were 18% for non-residents, and 27% for residents