David

Thanks KatieKopyKat, the thread was meant to be filled with nonsense to make us smile. Re soup and stew - If a soup is eaten with a spoon, and a stew with knife and fork, is mince curry a soup or stew?  I would say mince curry is more of a stew, but ..... Re three leaf or nine leaf - the neighbours came round to visit, and one bottle of pastis later ..... A very old one - What is the difference between Ferrari and MacDonalds?  Ferrari only have one burnt Berger.  Ouch. Re sauce or gravy, if gravy is made with meat juices, why do posh restaurants and Chefs call their gravy a sauce? David  

What is the difference between French mashed potatoes (puree), British mashed potatoes (Some lumps), Crushed potatoes and overcooked boiled potatoes that have gone partly or all the way towards a mush? David

Not necessarily related to France alone, but what is the difference between French and British books - French books, when looked at from the spine are upside down. What is the difference between sauce and gravy?  I do not know the answer. What is the difference between soup and stew?  Any answers? David p.s.  I think the Martian thread is wonderful, and it has cheered me up.  Can we have more on the lighter side please?

Dear Patf, Sorry I was not clear.  No the flooding is not from the sea, but is rain water.  The area is generally dry for most of the year, but in winter it can experience heavy rain, sometimes torrential.  This water takes some time to drain and plants can be underwater for several days.  Due to the generally dry nature of the area, when the soil (laugh, laugh) dries out, it goes like cement, and the locals use pickaxes as the first digging tool.  The soil is very sandy, but I think that it must be mixed with something else for it to go so hard when dry.  There is an element of sea water from wind borne spray.  The garden plot in question gets no direct sun at all, but does have good natural light. On another matter completely, I wonder if anyone could advise me which thread to go to as I have researched the threads and cannot find the relevant matter.  After my hospital visit I saw my French GP.  He advised me to apply for a French incapicity card (or handicapee) including a car parking blue badge.  He also gave me a prescription for a new leg splint and a new wheel chair.  I have bitten the bullet, and will apply, but I wonder if anyone else has gone through this process, and if they have any advice or suggestions.  It seems that I must be 80% disabled, which my GP says I am, and that I must go through several medicals taking some five to six months.  I hasten to add that I do not wish to claim any monetary benefits from  France. Many thanks, David p.s.  Can anyone tell me how to post the smilies, or cartoon characters at the bottom of the page?  I have ticked the blasted things, and then pressed the post box below them, to find that the typed missive posts itself before I am ready, and without the yellow thingy! p.p.s.  While I am having a whinge, can anyone tell me why some pages come up far too wide to display fully on my computer?  One particular post with this problem was uninstalling Norton.

Fulcrum, Tried to update spybot, but program stalled, and I was told to delete first.  It seemed that spybot program on computer would not accept changes.  Probably something I did wrong.  Adaware tells me that I have to uninstall and reinstall, but I havent got round to it yet as Norton and Windows continually update themselves, and I am waiting for them to finish.  Presently windows is downloading something, and after some hours is only 13% finished.  I only have a slow 46 kps dial up connection. I have the windows firewall activated, but Norton insisted that it was allowed a connection.  I am not sure what happened with spybot and adaware.  All very difficult for a non techie. My windows and Norton systems seem to continually fight with Wanadoo, who are my internet providers.  My home page is Wanadoo, and I try to check all e-mails on Wanadoo first so that I can delete suspicious ones, before downloading the real ones.  However, while trying to get to the e-mail page on Wanadoo my computer internet connection frequently freezes, or runs very slowly while connected.  It normally takes two to three minutes (really) to connect to the Wanadoo e-mail page, and this slow speed continues while on line, and for example, when trying to post, it frequently takes several minutes, and often I get "page unavailable" and have to try again.  Then I disconnect, run adaware, and try again. I am hoping that uninstalling Norton will help with this problem. I think that I can back up the system through the system restore function in Windows XP. I do not know the best way to remove Norton.  On this thread some say to use the windows uninstall, and accept that some Norton parts will remain, others say go to the Norton site and use their tool.  Would be grateful for advice. Many many thanks for your advice, David p.s. While writing this online, the windows update has gone from 13% to 15%.  

Dear andyh4, Thanks for your post.  The two manhole covers are actually outside our plot, and I think they are electricity junction boxes.  The big grey boxes above ground are the electricity boxes and meters.  Last time I looked at the manholes they seemed to have special unlocking bolts on them, and I could not open them.  I will check next time we are down there. David

Fulcrum, Thanks very much for the advice.  Sorry to be such an idiot, but can you tell me how to download and save the programs somewhere safe? I thought that when you downloaded, the programs automatically installed themselves on the computer and became active.  At least that seems to be what happens when I click the "go" or "OK" or "Download" (whatever the button is called) button on other downloads. I already have spybot and adaware, but they are old versions and need uninstalling and new updated programs downloaded. Many thanks and sorry for the trouble, David

I too am thinking of removing Norton, and I will look at their web site for instructions.  For a non techie it does seem rather difficult. I only have a slow dial up connection, so it will take some time to download AVG, adaware and spybot. I have windows XP,  and my question is whether I should uninstall Norton before downloading the others.  If so, will my computer be exposed while downloading the replacements? Many thanks, David

Thank you all so much for your help on this thread.  I have now got back from the hospital in Tours (some 2.5 hours drive from home so we stayed a couple of days), and the news was not too good.  It seems that I will not be rising from the wheelchair any time soon.  Very depressing. Gay, thank you very much for your kind offer to post the drawing, but I think that it might be better not to post it. The thread had been a bit diverted from plants that might survive, to structural and drainage work.  In reality, it now seems that we will not be bringing in any contractors to install drainage or raised beds, so any plan of garden drainage slopes would only be a red herring. We must make the best of what we have, and with the work that two old codgers, one in a wheelchair, can do. You have all given us some great ideas for plants.  We are going down to the house again for Easter, and we will take your very kind suggestions to the local garden centre, which does seem excellent and helpful.  They do not speak English, and my French is not too good so we have not been able to explain the problems to them properly.  However, with the names of some plants we can make progress.  We do not have internet access in Leucate,so I will report when we return. Thank you all. David

Tresco, You have summed it up almost perfectly, "Hardy Plants for Unbearable Heat but Little Sun, Coupled With Flooding in The Cold Winter Months, Sahara Conditions in the Summer, and the Odd Splash of Sea Salt Borne on a Tremendous Wind" misses out the poor builder's rubble soil.  The builders did lorry in what they laughingly called "top soil", but this looked as if it was a top scraping from another building site! We await their next delivery of top soil, if ever it appears!

Just a thought, perhaps I should have called this post "Hardy plants for holiday home gardens on the Med Coast"? What do you proper gardeners think? David

Dear val douest, What a wonderful plant the Sedum "John Creech" sounds for us.  Thank you, thank you for such a sensible suggestion.. This together with Spanish reed for height, and perhaps oleanders if they can survive the winter, sounds great. Re oleanders, I wonder how hardy they are?  Winters at Port Leucate while windy and sometimes wet, tend to be mild compered with central France.  The area can get a frost, but this is unusual, and rarely gets down to even minus 1 or 2 degrees centigrade, and even then for a very limited period of time.  The normal winter minimum temperature seems to be about plus 2 degrees, although subject to a ferocious wind which makes the wind chill factor quite low.  The locals are adamant that they never have a frost, but I am sceptical about that.  They also told us that it only rained, lightly, for 15 days a year! We now have some ideas to take to the local garden centre with us, as we hope to go back at Easter.  Sedums do seem ideal, perhaps we may find some other varieties giving colour at different times of the year.  The "John Creech" sounds great, is drought and flood tolerant, and will give colour for the summer season. Do you know if Sedums have the same name in France? Many, many thanks, David

Tresco, Spanish reed and oleander sound brilliant.  Any other plant ideas?  With regard to natural light, you are correct, there is a lot of natural light, but no direct sunlight. This flooded area is a builders problem, but to be fair they have had a lot of other problems, and they have done their best to sort those out.  They have just had enough with this small flooding plot (the only one on the site), especially when the flooding does not affect the structural integrity of the house.  In fairness I really could not call them "naughty builders" or "rogue builders". Many many thanks, David

Many thanks Tresco for posting the photos. To explain a bit, the wall to the left of the photos is the lounge wall of the house next door which is offset.  The border is in line with the ugly looking boxes which are the electricity junction boxes, and the line of the hedge can be seen in line with the edge of the wooden terrace which is for the house next door.  There is a larger amount of garden to the right of the photo, but this does not flood so much, as the water drains into the flooded area.  The nearest road is on the far side of the houses in the background. Please rember that my wife and I reach our 60th birthdays soon, and that I am in a wheelchair. I think that you are correct that the developers have got it wrong, but the developers have flatly refused to do any more, thus to involve them would require legal action, which I am very reluctant to do.  The only problem is this small patch of garden, and the flooding does not affect our house.  The developers are adamant that local building regulations do not require drainage.  This may be correct, as the area is generally dry, and only suffers heavy intermittent rain for a few weeks in winter.  The site is reclaimed land, the water in the photos is part of a sea water lake connected to the sea, and is salt water and tidal.  The land in the photos does slope towards the house, but to the right, not shown in the photos, the land slopes around our house, down the right hand side of the house, and out towards the front of the house which drains into another part of the lake.  Thus, when looking at the photos, the main part of the lake is behind the viewer, and the water naturally drains around the right hand side of the house, over two paths, and reaches the sea directly behind the point behind where the photos were taken.  The photos look uphill, with the drainage being in the other direction.  After rain the flooding seems to last for several days in that part of the plot before drying out. In fact our biggest drainage problem is at the other side of the house where the water drains to the sea.  This part of the embankment is not concrete re-inforced, and we have severe erosion, with rivulets cutting back towards the house.  I have not mentioned this as this is not a gardening problem. I hope this is clear, but I wonder if I might scan in a simple drawing of the site and send it to Gay (Russethouse) by e-mail to include on the post. When I started this post, I wondered if anyone knew of any ground cover plants that could stand a week, or two, or three, of flooding in winter, followed by hot dry summers, with very cold harsh winds in winter, and warm dry winds in summer, with poor soil, and as the flooding part of the garden faces north west, the flooding part of the garden is a plot which gets no sun at all except for an hour a day in late evening in high summer. Because of the Tramontane wind, we do not use this part of the garden, having another garden on the other side of the house and out of the wind, but we would like to plant it to have a nice view from the kitchen, where photos one and two were taken from, and perhaps to plant herbs for the kitchen.  We do not want to leave it as bare soil. I am sorry if the title of the post mislead people, but not being a gardener I thought that the lack of direct sunlight was a major problem.  I had thought of cactus plants which could suck up the water in times of flooding, and then survive the summer drought, but I thought cactii (?) needed lots of sun. Again very many thanks for all your kind assistance. David

This may be a silly question, but does anyone know if a satellite dish for sky in the south of France can be installed, say on a tripod, on the lounge floor, and pointed out through closed glass patio doors which face south south east? I have seen this done on a caravan web site, but I think the dish was installed "upside down" in the vertical plane.  I am not an expert and this could be wrong. Thanks, David

Thanks Jonzjob.  No I don't particularly need a French driving licence until I turn 70.  I was replying to Maureen who suggested I should use a French licence as an identity card.  

I have been making some enquiries from the developers regarding drainage and new top soil.  They advise that it is now impossible to install drainage due to underground pipes and cables.  Further the drainage would have to cross two paths where the foundations have already been laid. They have agreed to barrow the equivalent of about one lorry load of soil to raise the height of the flooded section by about 2 to 3 centimetres.  They advise that this is the maximum they can do due to the height of the foundations and floor in the house next door (the house which stops the sun, and provides the flood trap).  Any higher will cause damp problems in the house next door. The soil will be the same as that already provided which is poor quality, and although it may help with flooding it will not stop it.  Unfortunately the developers promised exactly the same last July and nothing happened. I have realised that the hedge survives because it is out of the flood area, and being on the edge of the plot gets a significant amount of sun. I have been trying to include two photos of the flood area, but to no success. Thanks, David

Many thanks for all your helpful comments.  We will try again for a titre de sejour, which the Marie has already refused once. Three matters arise from your comments. A) When we arrived in France we applied to our local Marie for a Carte de Sejour.  They were very helpful, filled in the paper work and gave us an attestation that we had applied for one.  Some time later we received an official letter from the prefecture saying that the law was going to be changed, and that our application would be kept in the pending file.  About a year later we received another latter saying that Cartes de Sejour were no longer required for UK nationals, and that they would not issue us one. B) Again when we arrived in France we asked the local prefecture to change our UK driving licences (old pink ones with no photo) for French ones.  Initially the office were very helpful, and filled out the forms.  Then the lady had one question, so she phoned head office in Niort.  She was told that a change was not necessary, and that she should not issue a French licence.  We are reluctant to force a change of licence by lying and stating that both my wife and I may be subject to traffic offences in France.  Presently we are not, and we hope it stays that way. C) We thought of photocopying our passports, but the local Marie refuses to endorse them as being a true copy, except when they are for use in the UK.  Apparently this is no longer required in France, it being sufficient to endorse them yourself.  However, some neighbours, when stopped by the gendarms while driving, had much trouble with such photocopies.  They eventually took their original passports to the gendarmerie in the local town, and pleaded for leniency.  They were given a wigging and let go without a fine. Trust this clarifies our problem, and relieves some of your minds that we were not remiss when we arrived in France. Thanks again, David

We have lived in France for three years now, and have always carried our passports with us.  We understand that this is a legal requirement, particularly when driving.  We have asked our local prefecture and Marie if we can obtain a French Identity Card, but they say that we cannot, as we have to be French citizens to have one. Our problem now is that we are considering going overseas for a special 60th birthday holiday, and we may need visas.  Of course to obtain the visas we have to send our UK passports to London (or Paris but that is more difficult) for the visas to be processed. This leaves us with no legal ID in France. Any ideas or suggestions gratefully received as we have researched this site, but cannot find an answer to this specific question. Many thanks, David

Many thanks to all for your very kind assistance.  This is written in haste between thunder storms as we have an overhead, non broadband, telephone connection, and I have already lost two modems even through surge protectors. I will reply fully when the weather settles down. Thanks, David

Dear Tresco and Viva, Thank you very much indeed for your kind assistance.  Our background info, (with reference to some of le bouffon's comments) is that we live in France department 79 Deux-Sevres, about 6.5 hours drive from our other house in Port Leucate.  We are both getting very close to our 60th birthdays, and presently I am in a wheel chair, so we cannot do any heavy work.  In Deux-Sevres we have a garden of 7000 square metres which my wife Anne looks after, with a lot of help from the neighbours.  My wife is an amateur gardener and she has successfully managed gardens from the Scottish Highlands to East Anglia, but the back patch in Port Leucate has beaten her.  We go down to Port Leucate fairly often, as often as my health and weather allow, and we avidly follow the French TV weather forecasts, but there are times when we are absent for months, for example when I have been in hospital.  We could ask the neighbours to look after the garden fully, but we do not want to become too indebted to them, and we are trying to be independent. In our Port Leucate sheltered and sunny front garden, about 15 feet by 40 feet, we have planted palms, olives and other local plants which the neighbours water occasionally for us during the summer, and all are doing well. The back plot has already been half covered with cement to form a terrace outside the kitchen and dining room, all of this area is completely sunless.  We are left with a plot of about 20 feet deep and 40 feet wide which presently is bare earth with some dead plants planted in it.  We have considered pot plants, but in summer these will need too much watering, and may be too heavy for us to move out of the garden for winter.  We do not want to cement over the rest of the back plot, as this would give a desolate look out of the kitchen.  We would like some easily maintained ground cover plants, and hopefully some with a bit of height, that will provide some colour and interest throughout the year from the kitchen.  Presently the plot is completely open to the Tramontane wind, it faces North West and gets virtually no sun.  In winter it floods, and in summer it dries out.  It is a new development and the developers have planted a small hedge around the plot which is about 18 inches high with lots of gaps.  We do not know what plants have been used for the hedge, but they have not yet died.  In a few years this hedge will provide shelter, but not yet. I hope this is enough information for you, and many thanks for all your help, David.

[quote user="le bouffon"]The temps are indeed taken out of the wind,and are taken on our sun trap known as a roof  terrase berween 13000 and 1500.ps remember the french give the minimum temps.[/quote] Thanks for clarifying the temperatures.  For weather comparison purposes temperatures are always reported by all met agencies after being taken out of the sun and in any wind.  That is the purpose of a Stevenson's Screen which you may have seen photos of.  This is a white louvred box with the thermometer inside, but being exposed to the outside air while being screened from the sun. Any other way of taking temperatures is faulty, particularly if the thermometer is exposed to the sun, as the recording device will then absorb radient heat, and all thermometers react differently to this. The Spanish have developed a very useful "beach temperature" advice.  Here they report the actual air temperature as noted above, but then give another temperature which advises what this will feel like on a beach exposed to the sun, but sheltered from the wind.  This has been developed after experimentation, and has no direct physical measurement, but it is very useful for beach users.  Much the same as wind chill factor. I really do envy you having a sheltered roof terrace in the sun and out of the wind.  This must be wonderful.  However, that is a micro climate, and does not reflect average temperatures on the Med coast. In particular it does not apply to a north west facing garden which is exposed to the Tramontane wind coming straight off the snow covered Canigou mountain which is in full view of the garden, and which garden does not receive any sun, which was the original post. I really do hope you continue to enjoy your sheltered micro climate roof terrace, and I envy you.  But I would be grateful if you would not divert a serious gardening post with inaccurate information. Knowing that we cannot change the garden soil, can you forget your clown's hat and recommend any plants that could survive regular drownings and cold temperatures in winter, followed by months of drought, poor soil except garden compost that they are planted in, and very little or no direct sunlight? Kind regards, David

Sorry le bouffon, got mixed up thinking of a womans' bouffon style (but checking the dictionary that should that be bouffant).  Of course a woman would use "la".  Please accept my apologies. I also see that bouffon means clown, which perhaps explains the jesting about the temperatures on the Med coast reported, which do not accord with any French TV weather forecasts that we have seen.  Or perhaps you left the thermometer in the sun out of the wind, rather than recording the air temperature in the shade and in the wind? Will remember the clown bit in future, and will not bite. David  

Many thanks for your helpful replies.  I will pass the gardening books to wife who is the gardener, and perhaps we can find them when we return to the UK, as we live in France department 79. I envy Le Bouffon with her high temperatures, here today in department 79 it was about 5 degrees with a bitter north east wind.  Our neighbours on the Med coast in Port Leucate tell us that the temperatures there are low, and definately not sunbathing weather.  We were there last week, and with the wind blowing (Port Leucate advertises 300 days a year wind surfing) the air temps were low, but it was nice out of the wind and in the sun. I wonder if the temperatures mentioned were proper air temperatures out of the sun, or if they were sun affected. Unfortunately we cannot move the soil as the nearest road is 150 metres away, and I am in a wheelchair.  We planted the plants in deep garden centre bagged compost, but they still quickly died. We have found that the two sides of the house have different climates, with the sunny south east being pleasant, but the sunless north west being cold and yucky at this time of year.  In summer it is a welcome relief from the heat. Thanks for the replies,   David

We have bought an holiday house on the Med coast near Perpignan with a small gardens back and front.  The soil is basically sand dunes mixed with builders' hard core rubble to firm up and raise the sand dune above sea water level of the adjacent lake which is connected to the sea.  The front garden faces south east and we have planted local plants including an olive tree and various plants that are supposed to like dry sunny conditions.  These plants are surviving well despite our extended absences. The small garden at the back of the house is our problem.  It faces north west, and because of the adjacent buildings gets no sun, except perhaps one hour a day in the evening of high summer.  The plot is exposed to the full force of the Tramontane wind which is ferocious particularly in winter, and which can easily reach 140 kph as we have discovered to our dismay.  The wind blows most days, but usually between 70 to 90 kph.  We have also discovered that the area is said to be the wind surfing capital of the world! The soil in the back plot is poor, and in winter when it rains it can flood for several days as there is no drainage.  (I know!  We have taken this up with the builders, but they are adamant that building regs in this area do not require drainage).  For the rest of the year there is little or no rainfall so the patch dries out and becomes hard baked with cracks in the soil. We have tried all the plants recommended by the local garden centre but all have promptly died after planting, so any ideas about plants that could survive this harsh environment would be very much appreciated.  Even ones that would just cover the soil and stop the dust blowing around. We did wonder about a cactus that could absorb the water at times of flooding, and then survive the drought for the rest of the year.  But this would not spread out to provide ground cover. Any ideas welcomed, and thanks in advance. David