crdale

[quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Zo"] Thanks Chris, Happy new year! This is obviously a very sensitive subject and everyone has such strong views about it, I'm almost afraid to join the discussion!!! I personally find that my opinion changes every time I read or hear something new. However I'm quite certain that the british government has gone about it in the wrong way. Forcing or removing a traditional way of life upon people purely by force is silly and will only lead to revolts against the enforcers (in this case, the poor police who don't really stand a chance.) The law is so unclear as to be pointless. I'm not really effected by hunting one way or another, however this brutal enforcement of political will is a worry. You simply have to wonder what they'll decide to do next!? For example, I use a bird of prey as a form of pest control on our land. Will the government suddenly decide that I am being unnecessarily cruel and ban me?! If so, then I won't ever be able to fly my bird free. (Is that not also cruel?) The fact that all I want him to chase are rabbits or pigeons doesn't stop him from going for anything that moves. Also, what happens if my dog happens to catch a hare? Would this be construed as 'hunting'? Will my dog have to be put down? Would every dog owner have to get a hunting license 'just in case'? The british government seems to have rushed into this, despite people having said they've been working on it for some time. Breeders should have been given time to stop having litters so they wouldn't have to put down all their puppies. A beautiful litter of 10 adorable beagle pups, bred for hunting, near where I live were all put down because it's not just fox-hunting, it's hunting with dogs that's been banned. It's pure waste! Having said this, it doesn't look like the english are having too much luck creating new hunts in france, although I hear they are quite welcome to join existing ones. This seems by far the least disruptive route. After all, if some frenchman decided to start up a Chevalerie in an idyllic english town the whole country would be up in arms! Each to his own. [/quote] Goodness Zo - I think you have a lot of reading to do :) Firstly  'Forcing or removing a traditional way of life upon people purely by force is silly and will only lead to revolts against the enforcers (in this case, the poor police who don't really stand a chance.) The change was achieved by democratic process, it most certainly was not 'forced' but people did have strongly held views. The law is so unclear as to be pointless It certainly is not the best piece of legislation ever passed and I suspect will be modified over time For example, I use a bird of prey as a form of pest control on our land. Will the government suddenly decide that I am being unnecessarily cruel and ban me?! I wouldn't think so however I think you may need to watch out for any legislation as some hunts are using birds of prey to 'finish off' the fox. If the government tried to stop people not abiding by the spirit of the law I guess your activity could get caught in the fall out Also, what happens if my dog happens to catch a hare I'm not sure how the legislation regarding this is framed but hare coursing  (which is banned, thank goodness)involved 2 dogs chasing the hare usually with large wagers being placed on the outcome The british government seems to have rushed into this, despite people having said they've been working on it for some time. Breeders should have been given time to stop having litters so they wouldn't have to put down all their puppies. A beautiful litter of 10 adorable beagle pups, bred for hunting, near where I live were all put down because it's not just fox-hunting, it's hunting with dogs that's been banned. It's pure waste! It took many years to get anti fox hunting adopted by the labour party, but it has been part of the Labour Party manifesto for some time( 8 years or so) The hunt had years to change their breeding patterns, in fact in some areas the hunts were offered help in 'homing' dogs and in most cases actually preferred to have the dogs destroyed. Before you start your dissertation it might be worth googling the 'History of the League Against Cruel Sports'  and also looking at the writings of Richard Ryder, previously mentioned in this thread. Good Luck with your degree.   [/quote] The change was achieved by democratic process, it most certainly was not 'forced' but people did have strongly held views. Using the Parliment act (an act only used three times previously for major consitutional matters) is forcing It certainly is not the best piece of legislation ever passed and I suspect will be modified over time I doubt it over 700 hours has been used to force this through they are not going to admit they are wrong now Also, what happens if my dog happens to catch a hare I'm not sure how the legislation regarding this is framed but hare coursing  (which is banned, thank goodness)involved 2 dogs chasing the hare usually with large wagers being placed on the outcome You probably would not be prosecuted  one chap own up to his dogs hunting and catch a hare but police did not take the case any further, he also owned up to hunting a mouse with his dogs in his house (which is also illegal under the act) but again was not prosecuted. Interesting thing about hare coursing (a sport that intends the hare to escape) the weekend after the ban some 8000 hares were shot by organised shoots which is more hares than were killed coursing since the second world war in fact if you took the average number of hares killed coursing per year since the war 8000 hares would have lasted over 150 years. It took many years to get anti fox hunting adopted by the labour party, but it has been part of the Labour Party manifesto for some time( 8 years or so) The hunt had years to change their breeding patterns, in fact in some areas the hunts were offered help in 'homing' dogs and in most cases actually preferred to have the dogs destroyed. Before you start your dissertation it might be worth googling the 'History of the League Against Cruel Sports'  and also looking at the writings of Richard Ryder, previously mentioned in this thread. The labour party bill that was put forward which had been fairly well thought out and reasonably fair (it was disliked by both sides of the arguement) was throw out at the first opportunity and the current illiberal act replaced it. I wonder if the history of the league against cruel sports mentions the fact that it has lost more than one chief executive due to the fact that they have come to the concusion that hunting is not particularly cruel. To balance the history of the league you  should probably check out the countryside alliance one should alway try to listen to both sides and having done that try reading the Burns report, Lord Burns was brought in by the government to write a report on the effects of hunting with dogs his conclusions were the basis for the government bill that got thrown out by people such as Dennis Skinner who apparently did it for the miners   Chris

I don't know about Casal but in 1667, King Louis XIV (the Sun-King) successfully laid siege to Lille, resulting in it becoming French in 1668 under the Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle up until then it had been pert of the spanish Netherlands   Chris

[quote user="Quillan"] [quote]Like I posted I care very little if a fox is shot or hunted the fox will be killed quicker with a pack of dogs than a non fatal gunshot wound,it,s mainly about the class thing as is popping up in the ...[/quote] Might be true in the UK but in France the ammo used is high velocity, hollow tipped and soft nosed, sort of normal size going in, size of large dinner plate coming out. I should immagine, if they shot Fox's in France there would be very little left to be alive after. What they do in the UK is up to them, I have no interest what so ever just don't bring it over here. [/quote]wow what sort of bullets are they the high velocity hollow tipped soft nosed bullets I have used here in the UK didn't do any like that ammount of damage  mind you the rabbits and hares I used them on would not have been worth eating if they had   Chris

[quote user="chris pp"] I think you will find that you need a permit to hunt regardless of which form your hunting takes, bow & arrow, falconry, knife, spear, sword, glue, mist net, mounted or firearm. It is also required that you have the consent of the landowners, this right has normally been "given up" to an ACA or ACCA  or made into a private hunt (read the link, I am sorry it's a bit long). This to my way of thinking is what is interesting in the case of Mr Quirk. Good reading, Chris [/quote] Yes but the majority of the field are not hunting they are observing the only people that would actually be hunting are the huntsman and his assistants   Chris

[quote user="WJT"]I for one love France but loath hunting  but particularly when it is dangerous and not sporting. I also feel strongly about cruelty to humans and animals like many French people living in France. With the attitudes of people like the previous poster there would be no progress or enlightenment on just "the way things are done" and turning a blind eye. Would have served well amongst the Nazi's I do believe[/quote]   I think you will find the the first people to ban hunting in Europe were the nazi's Chris

Can you keep paying in to a personal pension plan in England while living and working in France? Chris

we are in the process of buying in France and all was going well until the begining of the month when we found that due to the fact that we have a footpath going through our house in the UK(that was not picked up by our seaches when we bought the property) our buyer quite reasonably will not complete until it is sorted I have just found out that the diversion which the council is happy to do has to go to consultation and that will take time maybe six months.  When I still thought it was a minor problem I managed to get our completion date put back a month can I delay it again please help   Chris