Jay

I tried to have a telephone conversation with a young girl at URSSAF today. While my French is not particularly good I got the distinct impression they couldn't care less, and was told to contact CPAM. The only difference here is I have not paid my cotisation as I have not had a letter with the tear off slip. I sent a letter straight back asking for more details and enclosed previous letters giving us until 31 March 08. Let's hope it is yet another **** up.

[quote user="Owen"]Hello Bill, Nothing to worry about. If you have not yet received the demand from URSSAF you should not pay or attempt to pay. I am not promoting dishonesty. It is just you have to send off a cut-off slip with your cheque to URSSAF and this identifies you via account number/social security number and the like. But if you do send a cheque not only will it be cashed but you still may receive another demand, in due course, because the slip has not been included. [/quote] Just got a nice letter today dated 11/1/08 from URSSAF saying we have been kicked out of the CMU as of 31/12/07. At the end of November we got the usual letters re income, a letter saying we were out of the system from 31/3/08, a “renouvelle CMU Base” letter telling us how much we were to pay and an attestation all together (dated 24 October). I phoned the English helpline today re the URSSAF letter and the response was we would need to take out private healthcare. Then I was told it was probably due to the fact that I had not made a cotisation payment yet. I explained that I had not received a letter/slip asking for payment, which did not get a response other than “visit CPAM”. Strange thing is we were at the doctors this week, used our CV and CPAM have made a refund of the fee dated 16/1/08. We also visited CPAM on Monday 14/1/08 and they said everything was in order and to call again next month when they could give us more details of the 5 year rule and/or the “if you were already in the CMU you are OK (maybe)” rule. We have been in the CMU for almost five years and lived here for five and a half years. When are they going to get their b****y act together??

We moved here in 2002 and our E106 was only valid for six month. After a discussion with our (English speaking) CPAM rep we submitted our P60 to prove income (he said that was all that was required + the usual electricity bill etc.) and were issued CV's. Because of my UK government pension I  have to pay tax in the UK and assumed that all we needed to produce each year was a P60, we were not told otherwise. We have completed tax returns here since day one but never submitted them to CPAM until last year when we had our forms returned with a covering letter asking for proof of my wife's income. The only proof we had was our joint french tax return which we sent off and it was accepted. I agree with your comments Ron and cannot see why CPAM cannot access individual tax returns, it certainly would make life a lot easier and those not properly "in the system" would be picked up.

Got a letter from my MEP Graham Walson (SW Region) today. It's a bit late but at least it shows they have been doing their job and it is the only one (of six contacted) that has had the decency to reply. The covering page (Written Declaration by) names Mary Honeyball, Proinsias De Rossa and Bill Newton Dunn. No doubt others have received/posted similar results but I thought I would post it anyway. Written declaration on health care provision for European citizens residing in another Member State The European Parliament,  - having regard to Rule 116 of its Rules of Procedure, A. whereas EU law upholds the right to freedom of movement and freedom of residence across the European Union,   B. whereas access to health care is of fundamental importance to all citizens,  1. Recognises the fundamental principle of reciprocity of health care provision across the European Union;  2. Expresses grave concern that some EU citizens not born in France but legally resident there are being denied state health care provision despite paying all relevant taxes:  3. Recognises that private health care may not be available or affordable for citizens with disabilities or those with existing conditions;  4. Calls on Member States to uphold the principle of reciprocity of health care provision; further Calls on Member States not to make changes to health care provision that will deny EU citizens who are non-nationals access to state health care;  5. Calls on the European Commission to undertake a review of the manner in which Member States generally are operating the principal of reciprocity of health care provision to ensure that all Member States are complying with their obligations under the Treaties in this regard; 6. Instructs its President to forward this declaration, together with the names of the signatories, to the Council, the Commission and the governments and parliaments of the Member States.

Residents to stay in CMU? 5th November 2007 Internet French Property have today announced that a "Ministerial Cabinet of senior civil servants have agreed in principle to allowing 'inactive' expats living in France as at 30th Sept 07, and already registered with the State health insurance system (the 'CMU'), to remain in the system.  The matter is now being considered by the French health insurance body. We must stress that there has been no official confirmation of this news. We would also add that, if correct, this would still seem to exclude those UK nationals resident in France who are presently covered by forms E106. For the full article, click here Maybe they have not changed their minds regarding those already in the CMU. Macfai sent me this link which may be of interest: http://frenchhealthissues.eu/latest_news/residents_to_stay_in_cmu%205-11.htm This looks like a political ploy, take away a lot and give back a little - keep the masses happy.

[quote user="woolybanana"]Jay, just a thought, is it possible to share with us your notaires naughtinesses? Both out of interest and as a warning to other Brits.[/quote] The Notaire we used was very slow in response to both the French family and ourselves  requesting an early completion date. When pushed he had us all go in and sign the papers and we were given the keys. Three months later we did not have any documentation to say we owned the property. When I spoke to the French family they said the matter was not finalised and they had not received any monies. Frequent visits to the Notaire’s office revealed he had not completed the transaction and there was a dispute with a member of the family (the previous owners bit on the side and their 13 year old daughter). A judge in Paris became involved (acting on behalf of the minor). After 3 years we still had no paperwork, the family did not have the money  and I needed a loan from the bank to renovate part of the property as a Gite. The loan was delayed as the Notaire could not sign the paperwork  since the property was effectively still not ours. I contacted the Notaire’s Association with a complained and asked for compensation for loss of business. He was investigated and found to be somewhat lacking. I didn’t get any compensation but we got completion, we got the loan and the Notaire was fired. Not a bad result.

Looks like you people had some bad experiences. Just to show it’s not always like that I thought I would let you know the outcome of our purchase. We signed the papers after having a look at the property the week before to make sure it had been cleaned out and the rubbish removed. On the day of the signing the French family (all 10 of them) invited us to dinner and apologised for not cleaning out the barn and asked if we would accept a load of good quality wood and floor tiles if they could leave it as is, which we accepted. We even found a stash of 40 bottles of vintage wine which they had missed. Since then the family have kept in touch and we get an occasional visit to see what we have done with the place. Now that rogue of a Notaire we used is a different matter! We complained to the Notaire Association and eventually got him struck off for unprofessional conduct.

Just spoke to the English helpline and they say they have not had any information as yet regarding the "5 year rule" and suggest ringing back in 2 weeks.

Received a letter from l'Assurance Maladie today 31/10/07 which I have copied below. We have been in France for 5 years and have Carte de Sejour dated November '02, we also have filled in tax forms here since day one. It would seem from this the 5 year rule does NOT apply. Anyone else in a similar situation? J'ai bien reçu votre courrier du 04/09/2007... présentant une demande de renouvellement du bénéfice de la CMU.  Je vous informe qu'en raison de l'évolution du droit communautaire, les conditions d'accès à la protection sociale des ressortissants communautaires « inactifs » ont été modifiées. Aux termes de la directive communautaire n° 2004/38/CE du 29 avril 2004 transposée dans notre législation nationale par la loi n° 2006-911 du 24 juillet 2006 et le décret n° 2007-371 du 21 mars 2007, votre droit au séjour est soumis à deux conditions : être préalablement bénéficiaire d'une assurance maladie et disposer de ressources suffisantes.  Cette nouvelle réglementation ne permet plus à la Caisse Primaire d'Assurance Maladie de la Charente de renouveler vos droits à la CMU. Je vous invite donc à contracter une assurance privée afin de garantir votre prise en charge.  A titre transitoire, votre couverture maladie est néanmoins maintenue par la caisse primaire jusqu'au 31 mars 2008 afin de vous permettre d'accomplir toutes démarches utiles à votre affiliation auprès de l'organisme privé de votre choix.  Je vous invite à vous adresser à nos services afin qu'ils procèdent à l'enregistrement de ces droits temporaires dans votre carte vitale.

I wrote to my (UK) MEP's regarding the changes to the health system and got two replies. Make of them what you will: 1) received 18/10/07 Further to my email of 24th September (receipt of E-mail), Giles has asked me to let you know that he has taken up this issue with the Prime Minister.Please bear with us while we await a reply from Gordon Brown.   Kind regards Netia Carr (Mrs) Secretary to Giles Chichester MEP and 2) received 19/10/07 Thank you for your email to Graham Booth MEP and as he is currently away from the office he has asked me to reply on his behalf.  He is sorry to hear that you are affected by this issue - he is aware about it and has been contacted by a number of British citizens living in France.  Unfortunately there is nothing he can do as this is a domestic French decision made by the French government.  The only way of influencing policy development is via the French political system.  His best advice is for you, along with others, to lobby French politicians and French representatives for the are where you live. With kind regards  Yours sincerely S Palfrey Assistant to Graham Booth MEP

JJ - If the changes were aimed at French Nationals we wouldn't be discussing this. The country would be at a standstill, there would be riots in the streets and burning of cars in Paris!!

"you can only prove residency which is determined by tax returns" We moved here in August 02 and into our home in the November. Our CdeS’s were issued the same month but the start date was not till May 03 and they expire in June 08 (i.e. after the 5 year period). Coincidentally (or not as the case may be) our E106 ran out in the May of 03 and we joined the CMU at that time and were issued a CV. Like others here I thought (because of the double taxation thing) that it was not necessary to complete a tax return immediately as we paid tax in the UK. However in the January of 03 I received a tax form then shortly afterwards a registered letter telling me I had 30 days to complete the return or else! My point is that I am not totally convinced that determining the date for residency is wholly concerned with the date you filled in your first tax form or the date of issue of a CdeS. In my opinion it will be a much more complex operation. In my case I feel the only reason a tax return was issued so speedily was the fact that CPAM required proof of income. It could be construed that we were resident in 02 (tax return related to that year), or June 03 (the date our CdeS was issued) or in fact the date we joined the CMU. We consider it to be November 02 when we moved into our home. All in all it is bound to be complex and many of us will have a fight on our hands as no doubt the onus of proof will be on us. Even a few months without a CV could be very expensive.

Seems the "good news" newsletter on the IFP website has been removed http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/10/1 Let's hope they haven't changed their minds!

That is excellent news for those of us who have been here for over 5 years, let's hope it becomes reality. We must continue to fight for those who may not be as fortunate.

Has anyone here actually had their Carte Vitale revoked or had a letter from an official source saying they will no longer be covered after 1st October? It seems to me that if the new regulations are to come into force in just four days time those of us affected would have at least had some communication from the powers that be. I completed the “CMU declaration de revenus” as usual at the beginning of this month and have not heard anything further from them. Like many people here I have written to my MEP and am awaiting developments, all in all a worrying time, particularly for those who have serious ongoing medical problems.