dogbreath

Not a problem... I have a bit of a sensitive head on me today due to an unpleasant reply to another post I made concering swimming pools. Take Care kevin

I take your point but actually you will find that according to the Treaty of Rome we do not enjoy the full rights of a French citizen, even if we are resident.. The most notable exception to these rights being that we can be deported for anti scoial behaviour, ie breaking the laws of the land. We can lose our rights to residency, unlike a French Citizen. I conceed guests is not stricckly the most accurate legal reference I could have used but the point I suggest was not deminished by the error. I agree with your point about it being more simple to do things correctly. Respectfully K

There has been a huge amount written about the French Pool Safety Laws. Many people, French and ex-pats alike do not understand their responsibilities in relation to pool safety and have installed systems which are non-compliant with the Law. It is not enough just to buy an approved system, many people selling such items as alarms will not tell you the full facts because if they did they could not sell what is virtually a useless product for most people’s requirements. I am contributing the text below in order to help clarify the situation. Many will disagree with what I am about to write, mostly because they will find that the alarm or cover or fence they have installed whilst on purchase may have been ‘approved’ is in fact upon installation not ‘compliant’. First off let’s distinguish between the word ‘Approved’ and the word ‘Compliant’. To do this I shall use an example. Mrs Jones buys an approved fence from Point P with the intention of installing it around his pool… so far so good. He fixes the fence permanently to the patio and follows all the guidelines…. He also installs an approved gate. OK… pretty obviously he is using an approved fence and he is compliant. This is how it should be done….. Now Mr Jones builds a rockery up against the outside perimeter of the fence. The rocks are 300mm high…. Now he is using an approved fence but it is non compliant. He has compromised the legal minimum height between horizontal members from 1100mm to 800mm. Basically he has provided a means by which a child my be aided in climbing the fence. He is now liable to the full force of the law as he has got a non compliant pool safety system… even though the system itself is approved…. So far this is not nuclear physics so forgive the patronisation… I just need to show that it is not just pool alarms which are capable of being non compliant. This is an obvious example and I use it for demonstration purposes however, on one advertising brochure for pool fencing the fence is shown installed in a flower border with rocks…… Hard to believe but true! Other ways of inadvertently becoming non-compliant include; tying open the gate, placing a child’s slide near to the fence, planting a climbable tree within close proximity to the fence, digging a tunnel under the fence and leaving a trail of sweets to the water’s edge…. And so on… Basically any form of climbing aid (or tunnelling… i.e. lose soil flower borders) near (or under) the fence will render you non compliant. So far most reading this will say ‘Yea…. That’s all obvious…..’ Well now for the not so obvious…. If you install a pool alarm the audible part of it must be within earshot of a sober adult at all times… That means 2 4 / 7. Now I can hear all those who have alarms protesting that this is impractical… and of course it is…. That is why you should never fit an alarm without a secondary method of protection……. Oh did the alarm salesman not mention that??? Did he mention that almost all alarms of the submersible type also are not suitable for pools where the distance between possible entry and the alarm is greater than 7.5m? That means if your pool is 10 x 5m you MUST have 2 alarms…. Funny he didn’t mention this… But then only an idiot would take the advise of an alarm salesman when it comes the whether or not you need an alarm….. If an alarm is used and not monitored 24 / 7 (all year) you MUST use a secondary system for the periods the alarm is not monitored (i.e. when you are in the pub or out shopping or in the garden etc…). The most suitable secondary system with an alarm is of course an approved (and compliant) cover (not normal winter or summer covers). A secondary system consisting of alarm (perimeter or submersible) would of course be pointless (unless your primary system is a cover of course). I Realise many of you will immediately disagree with this assessment but you will be reacting due to the fact that you have a non compliant system not for any logical reason. Do you really think that people like me spend 10,000 euros on a fence when we could have bough an alarm for a tenth of that sum do so for no good reason? And what makes me so knowledgeable?…. 4 years reading Law, a Bachelors of Law (Hons) Degree and 16 years suing PGL Freedom of France in the French Courts for their negligence leading to the death of my own child in La Rochelle. Kev

Why let down the tyres. Report them to the DVLA and French Police.... That's what I do. This may seem extreme but what if is your family the run into....? Kev...

Hello, Not necessarily but often SORN cars are also not MOT'd and then the car is not insured as you have lied (by ommission) on your insurance application. I have had a French car on French plates, insured in France for about 3 years. No problems. I have now bought a UK car (I really never got on with the steering wheel on the wrong side and feel safer in a rhd….. Please no comments it is a matter of choice for me)…. Anyway… I am now in the process of registering the car here in France…. I have incidentally found this site very good for advice on that front…. Thanks to all who contributed. In the process of bringing the car over I have been investigating the SORN and other aspects of importing UK cars, temporarily and permanently to France and can share the following with you. Basically you can export permanently or temporarily. Temporary export is only permitted for up to 364 Days. Permanent is over that duration of course. If you permanently export you need to go through the official process, which has been well covered elsewhere on the site. Temporary export is more complicated and if done instead of (or to hide) a permanent export (which lets face it is done all the time) can lead to some very serious problems…. Most notably driving with no MOT and consequently no insurance… (insurance being void by absence of MOT). Where to start???…. OK many people who temporarily export do so to avoid the inconvenience and cost of permanent export…. This is fine but they also try to save an extra few bob by declaring a SORN. … Not at all a good idea…. The DVLA's site states that a SORN may not be done for cars which are ‘Permanently Exported, Scrapped or Sold’….. Temp Export is conspicuously absent from this list…. So one may easily infer that a SORN is ok on a temp export…. It is NOT! This would be a mistake… I have had detailed discussions with the DVLA and they inform me that a SORN is actually only valid if the car is ‘Off Road in the UK’. I would be inclined to disagree but they make (or interpret) the rules and they enforce them… No point arguing… what they say goes……. Of course unless they actually go round to your UK address and search for the car they will never know it is temporarily exported…. Temp export by the way requires no paperwork, so the start date is often ….. ‘moveable’ by unscrupulous car owners…. Insurance is no problem… You can insure in the UK with a European extension, I have done this until I get the car registered in France.. The problems occur if you have an accident…. First, if the car is over 3 years old you will not have an MOT…. Anyone who says they have is not being honest. Either they have not or they have driven into the UK whilst under SORN to get one…. Either way they have been dishonest. So, presuming you have no MOT…. You have no Insurance. Whilst it is fair to say that in the event of an accident the Insurance company will not check with DVLA they most certainly will check for an MOT!!!!!! If you have an accident n France without insurance you are in a bag of Sh**e…. to put it mildly….. YOU will be liable for all costs and if there is a personal injury involved you could lose everything overnight!!! This is to say nothing of the criminal aspects and punishment you will receive……Is it worth it? SO, it is a bad idea to SORN your car on a temp export. Only SORN if your car is off road and in the UK….. Better to temp export and pay the UK road tax and get a regular MOT, in the UK…. You can get away with this indefinitely….. You can if you wish use a perpetual temp export (I don’t advocate this) but why be dodgy??? But why come to this country, make it your new home and then break the laws here? We are guests in France and as much as the laws and rules are a blooming inconvenience we should do our best to follow them…. Regards K