Gluestick
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Posts posted by Gluestick
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Where does it fit, in relation to kitchen units?
Normally, the outlet pipe for an externally vented hood, is small enough to sit above the top trim of the units and thus to an exterior wall. As is mine in the UK.
Mine, in France will be piped above what will be a fridge cupboard (for a larder fridge) and so to the outside, since whilst it will sit next to the main chimney - in the part of the kitchen where the old range would have sat, 200 years ago, the chimney is in use.
Does your chimney have a stainless flue lining? Is it not therefore possible to vent into the old (huge) chimney space, beside the liner?
Just a few thoughts.
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If I was going to install a rad purely to be heated by electricity, then I would probably make sure all the seals would not be affected: and fill it with light oil!
Would take an awful long to corrode, then! Oil-filled rads and heaters, are of course quite common, of course.
Like your new descriptor, Paul ![:D] Self-awarded?
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Provided it sits slightly above the topmost rad level, yes.
Just allow a little pipe above the rad's upper position, for the air gap.
Bonne courage !
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Strange: Screwfix offers heated towel radiator electrical heating inserts and states, "Use with plumbed or non-plumbed......................."
As I stated before, the total expected expansion of water would be max. 4.3% from freezing to boiling.
If the stat did fail, and the element continued to supply heat, then eventually, probably the water may well boil and this would blow-off the valve seals and/or the standpipe bleed and/or the solder joint.
If all the water was evacuated, as steam, then the element would quickly over-heat and either the Fail-Safe internal fuse would blow: or the element would rapidly burn out, or trip out the MCB.
If one was really worried, then fit a safety valve on the standpipe!
However, in practice, the built-in safety device would cut out, before the boiling point was reached and the heating coil and stat would have to be replaced. Double Level Redundancy, i.e.
All modern heating elements (immersion, kettle, electric rads, coffee makers etc), have some form of over-heat protection. Years ago used to be a fusible link - soft solder; it would simply melt!
These days, tends to be a thermister, heat sensitive fuse, heat dependant resistor etc. All good quality approved electrical mains equipment has such safety features built in, even power supply transformers.
If you Google "Immersion Heater Elements Safety" you will see what I mean...............
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I would make the standpipe, taller than the rad.
Easier to fill the pipe than the rad.
Personally, I would not leave airspace in the rad, per se, as this, with heat, can encourage corrosion: basis, Heat + Air + Mild Steel = Iron Oxide, plus a series of elementary salts from the various chemical compounds in the water, such as chlorides, sulphates, nitrates etc.
Plus, of course, the rad would "Chuckle" as it warmed up. The same aspect applied to the standpipe, would be Heat + Air + Copper, which would corrode less than Mild Steel. Plus the pipe is only temporary and can be junked, when you finally install the heating.
Just me, being pedantic I suppose! [:)]
Theoretically, I cannot see that expansion would be too much, actually, as the temp is restricted by the 'stat.
Suck it and see?
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When the rad is connected to your central heating system, it will be pressurised to above atmospheric, as French systems (like combi systems) have static pressure.
If you isolate any radiator in the system (by turning off both valves), then the pressure should remain, until it gradually "Bleeds" off, mainly owing to natural leakage from the rad valve seals, over time.
One can only presume that the recommendation to "leave the return valve open" has to relate to natural expansion. The heating element inserts usually have a thermostat, which would limit the maximum temp, thus excess expansion should not actually be a problem. Neither should pressure, since the rad should not reach anything like boiling point, as the thermostat will limit the maximum temp atg well beneath 100 Deg. C.
The total expansion (by volume) is circa 4.3% from freezing to boiling - bearing in mind that water actually expands between the mid point and freezing and boiling! i.e. it occupies the least volume above freezing and below boiling. Complicated, huh? Thus probable expansion between ambient (room) temp and top operating temp would be in the region of 2-3% only by volume.
Probably, what I would do is to fit one pipe, only, to the return valve and make this an expansion pipe: run it upwards and fit a bleed-off valve and half-fill this standpipe, to ensure the rad is full, to bleed off air and to allow expansion into the pipe. Then all you will be doing is compressing the standing air.
BTW: don't forget to add anti-corrosion fluid, when you fill the rad!
I can see no benefit or reason to join both outlets with a looped connection.
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Two local examples, both hardwood, both completely designed and installed both excellent fit and finish, two different charpentiers.
Between € 1,250 and 1,400.
Both quarter turn, used in loft conversions.
BTW: It does seem as if charges made by artisans in this area (Nord Pas de Calais), tend to be higher than many other areas. Hope this helps.
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Many thanks, Opel Fruit. I am sure that this answer now finally closes this area.
As I earlier stated, I would urge anyone thinking of undertaking heating/plumbing work on French property, to make Opel Fruit's original thread, their first stopping point for research.
After all, he was kind enough to take considerable time to develop this thread: and add to it over time. It is a wonderful (free!) resource: use it!
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Perhaps Opal Fruit could kindly set right the presently open matter of boiler set-up and safety certification, post installation? This appears now to be the only open question.
Steve:
Agree with your sentiments. Some Asian manufactured components are fine, mainly I have found, when these are made to some Western specification and/or standard.
In reality, of course, many brandname products (of all types) sold in the UK, are manufactured in China, e.g.
That said, there is currently a large crop of inferior stuff, retailed by many leading sellers and much of it is to say the least, iffy.
Unless the price differential is enormous, I personally can't see the point of trying to save a few quid, only to face a raft of potential fit-up and warranty problems.
I am sure that most of us with any detailed UK project experience would provide almost identical advice to a Frenchman addressing a renovation project in the UK and thinking of importing French spec building materials!
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I have recently had new shutter fitted and purchased the wood treatment from Leylands, in the UK.
Not cheap but certainly not as expensive as Sadlins e.g. and most certainly not as dear as France!
Leyland have recently purchased Johnsons Paints, which is a trade product.
Next job is the outside this Autumn: and that will be Leyland Wall paint, which is "guaranteed" for fifteen years. I remain to be convinced! However, it is far cheaper than French equivalents.
Screwfix sell some Leyland products, including wall paint.
One caveat here: apparently, certain French paints are designed for French houses: they need to "Breathe", as damp courses can be quite rare! Sealing inside/outside walls in with non-permeable treatment can so, I am told, promote damp and humidity problems.
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Don't wish to argue (particularly with a mad monk, reputed to have magical powers![:D]), however logic surely must come into play here.................
Scenario: you have a system installed by a registered, certified and proper heating engineer in France. OK so far. He (might even be a she, in these days of growing equality! [:D]) carries out the annual servicing and certification (as I stated, above). He then retires or dies? Does this mean that you must have the whole system re-installed? Obviously not. You simply call in another heating engineer able to certify for insurance purposes. However, he didn't install it. However, provided it conforms to regulations, he then services and certifies as per usual.
Change scenario: You buy a house and as is so often the way, you discover that the chimney has not been swept, lately, the oil-fired boiler has no current certificate (and even if it does, in theory, the seller can't find it), same outcome.
As I discovered in my own research, whilst any gas appliance must be installed by a certified engineer, where the gas pipework is fixed, oil-fired appliances do not need any certification, other than the annual safety, combustion and pressure set-up and tests and, of course, a relevant certificate for insurance purposes.
As a matter of interest, touring and static caravans must only have their gas appliances installed and tested by an approved engineer, in possession of all the right test kit. Only reason I know this, is since a client buys, sells, sites, repairs and recovers caravans of all types all over France, Spain, Italy and Portugal and they had to go through the examination and certification process (for France at least) to be able to continue siting and installing 'vans. Was not a cheap process, obtaining the approval and purchasing all the test kit!
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So my heating engineer client and chum assures me, a large number of the new boilers he fits in the UK are made in France.
However, they are not apparently UK type-approved.
Additionally, I did some pretty exhaustive research into UK oil-fired boilers and they were quite different from the French equivalent, heating oils apart. For example, I could not find the UK equivalent of an oil-fired Ventouse system.
Agree about sundry bits and pieces: had to buy a UK pipe bender, as it took 22 m.m. pipe. The one I bought from Brico Depot only went up to 16 m.m.
At the end of the day, however, if you are in the middle of fitting the system, have mates on site to help, return ferry booked, all systems go: and you find problems with some UK sourced components, it's a long ways back for the sake of saving a few quid!
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Oh, I can be very succinct, too, bj!
However, this question (and many like it!) are like old pennies: they keep re-appearing like weeds on the lawn. Being charitable, perhaps it's because members either don't do the research, can't find the "Search" feature, or they are seeking some kind of reassurance?
Perhaps I should have written:
Don't!
Research!
Brico Depot!!
[:D]
Tried this before: and then been accused of being terse! [8-)]
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Thus far, these are he realities I have found: I am not saying that the following is 100% accurate, however, I believe it to be reasonably correct.
1. Boiler: If you use gas, then this must be installed, set-up and commissioned by an approved French artisan. All the gas feed pipes, for example. If you buy in the UK, then you have certain problems! The first is that it would not necessarily be type-approved for France. Whilst pipe connections for rads and the circulating pump will normally be BSP, all other fittings, pipe etc will be different, excepting French 22 m.m. which is 22 m.m external diameter, but thicker wall thus the internal diameter is smaller.
If you use an oil-fired boiler, then you can install this yourself, however, if you contact your chosen bulk oil supplier, they should arrange for an engineer to set-up and commission the boiler, set the inlet pressures and flow rate and adjust the combustion. They will then supply a certificate of compliance, as they should be asked to, every year. French technicians will invariably refuse to touch a non-French approved appliance. They would have no detailed specifications (in French) to work from and, as has already been stated, the specific gravity, calorific value and characteristics of Mazout or Red Diesel are quite different to burning oil. Will a French insurer (notorious sticklers for the right bits of paper!) accept a claim for non-type approved equipment if it is the causer of a disaster?
2. Storage Tank: There are fairly new regulations coverning this: they are quite onerous. Make sure yours complies.
3. Pipework and rads. Are these much cheaper? Where have you checked prices? The cheapest I have found in France is Brico Depot. You may well spend far more time and more cash than you think, sorting out adapters to convert fittings and terminations!
4. Warranty: What happens if your sparkling new UK boiler fails? Will the manufacturers send an engineer over from the UK? Will you have to de-install the unit and return it to the UK? How much will this cost you? What about the inconvenience?
Quite a number of Brits, with exposure to various aspects of the building trades, come over to France and try and utilise UK approaches, which is fundamentally flawed thinking. Most of us have seen "Re-wires" using ring mains and 13 amp UK sockets, for example!
If you read the copious thread above concerning French Heating and Plumbing started by Opal Fruit, you will find that this is an absolute mine of cogent, well written and valuable advice. I would suggest that this ought properly to be your own starting poinmt.
Good luck!
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Each create a trust, where on demise the other is the named beneficiary, before you move to France.
Seek expert UK legal assistance on this., since trust law (and taxation) is a very demanding and complex area, if a trust is to be fully effective: plus, you have the added complication of changes of residence (potentially) and domicile. The two are not the same for tax law and trusts.
Other option is to base the trusts outside the UK, prior to relocating, since once you move, then the owner of each property/properties is already outside the UK in one sense, even where you leave things as they are now. With current changes to tax treatment of UK trusts, considering the offshore trust route may well pay considerable dividends.
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PVC cable buried in cement/plaster will degrade over time, due to the chemical reaction and thus lose insulation capablity.
Copper pipes are affected in a similar manner.
Thus makes much sense (ease of re-wiring apart), to locate in some form of protective outer sheathing.
Most UK cabling these days (and for some years) is carried in plastic conduit, in fact.
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Phil:
Yes and I do agree that most guncrimes tend to involve those connected in some way, with the perps.
However, it is apparent that peripheral and innocent victims are increasing, particularly in so-called, drive by shootings which are, of course, a common reality in places like Washington DC.
Only a few years ago, one of the top selling items was, for example, as ballistic resistant blanket for babies in prams!
Also, many of the handguns used in the UK are converted "Replicas" which are smooth bore and thus vary innacurate: and the shooters are not expert: far from it.
Anyone who has shot handguns, knows how notoriously hard it is to hit a pistol target at 25 metres!
Also, I fear, media reporting on these matters is carefully restrained as are police and home office press releases. Thus hard to actually arrive at the facts.
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Many thanks, SB.
In fact, I have some very informative French friends, who provide me with much perspective.
It seems that any city, particularly those near the sea are being affected.
Additionally, I do understand that your area has an above average crime problem. Have some dear English friends, who live half the year near Perpignon, in a marina I know quite well. He was a pretty senior police officer in the UK prior to retirement and has integrated well with the local gendarmerie. His car has been vandalised three times in the past few years, despite living on a pretty well guarded and "Secure" complex.
His comment was the nearness to Africa and Marseille is the primary causer.
It has definitely changed, significantly since I knew it in the early 90s.
I still seek some answers to my earlier questions concerning handguns and personal defence weapons. I could easily purchase these in various places (Decathlon e.g.) in Perpignon, in 1991.
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Yes, Patrick, that appears to be statistically correct. I used the illustration as a sort of conceptual acceptance and belief.
What does concern me, is the reality of violent gun crime (often affecting totally innocent parties) in so many British cities, now, such as Bristol (St. Paul's District), Nottingham, Manchester (Moss Side), specific parts of London ( e.g.s Tottenham, Balham etc) and so on. Most of it apparently, drugs related.
No one with any answers to the questions I posed about France?
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Ron: Mrs G sort of switches the kittchen TV on as active wallpaper I think! I am shortly going to sabotage it! Agree: I also sometimes listen to R4. I can't stand the endless drivel on any channel, masquerading as "Current Affairs", either and much prefer French TV.
However those comments apart, I am interested here in perspective: that's all.
Di: Couldn't agree more! Apart from the aches and pains, I am glad to be old, too! As GBS said, "Isn't it a great pity that youth is wasted upon the young!"
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[quote user="beryl"]
[quote user="missyesbut"]Nirvana... and many others! !![/quote]
Just reading that post had reminded me. I heard what I thought was a spoof on the radio, but it turned out to be Paul Anka singing Nirvana in big band style. He has also given his special treatment to Wonderwall. They really are bad.
[/quote]
Anka never was much of a singer. Incredibly successful songwriter, though.
I would have to include amongst my personal hall of fame, Gary Brooker, Alan Price, Georgie Fame, Pete Wilsher (the greatest British steel guitar player and another local lad who was a barber!), and for singers, Long John Baldry, Eric Burdon, Joe Cocker.
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[quote user="Iceni"]
But stabbings/shootings happen every day - what makes this one so especially important ? - whereas the WC is every 4 years. Sorry just sad facts of life.
John
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I suppose that John pretty well sums it up.
Problem is it was a shooting and of two young boys. It is well worth recalling at this point, that handguns were banned after the Dunblane tragedy: and that mere possession of a handgun earns a mandatory prison sentence. In theory.........................
Perhaps when UK society reaches a level similar to (e.g.) one of the old US frontier towns in the later half of the 1800s and when more "Normal" people are shot and killed, then the great uninformed majority will be shouting for "Them" to do something about it.
Sadly, as is the new wave way with UK society, complacency rules, OK?
How does France react to this sort of street violence? How strict are gun possession rules (particularly handguns) in France? Is France seeing a similar epidemic of shooting/stabbing crimes of violence? Can one still buy smooth-bore "Self Defense" weapons in France? I know that in the early 90s, one could buy neat little automatic pistols (9 m.m) which fired CS gas cartridges or Flaubert, I seem to recall it was called (grit to temporarily blind your assailant).
Are these weapons still available: and legal?
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As I sleepily moved through the kitchen, early this morning, in search of my wake-up tea, since my wife was watching ITV's breakfast "News" programme, I was forcibly struck by a very powerful contrast.
On the one hand, there was passing coverage of a dreadful event in Manchester, where apparently, a 13 year old boy and a 15 year old boy had been shot: one five times, whilst playing on their 'bikes, in the street.
After a quick comment from Ilford, East London, the scene of a recent violent terrorist arrest, the coverage moved more importantly on to what the England football team ate for breakfast, which story occupied far more air time.
Thus it seems we have a pretty good indication of what the media (and the public) think is of the greatest importance.
Worrying.......................................................................[:(]
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I am really delighted that Joe is still gigging. Many thanks for the info people.
I last saw him in about 1976: he played a local gig with his late wife Anne, not long before she so sadly passed away.
To my mind, one of the great British musicians and guitarists (and banjo and uke too ) from the early days in the fifties: and of course, his comeback in the mid-sixties era .
With various bands, we often used Joe's numbers like "Dad's gorn dahn the dogtrack.................." as part of our repertoire; and "Enery the eigfth."
In my own mind, he ranks alongside such personal early idols as Mickey Green ( Johnny Kid and the Pirates).
Heh! This becoming a great thread! More reminiscences people please!
For the guitarists amongst us, which early British performers do you rate (leaving aside the obvious like Knoffler and Clapton)? Mine would have to include Robin Trower, not only because I knew him quite well (another local lad) but because of his sheer musical talent. Again, not very well recognised.
Butane & Propane Gas Bottles
in House Renovations
Posted
Ewa
One of the real problems in France, for UK equipment, is that all the regulators are different!
I don't mean just for propane or butane, either, althought they are different.
I mean the French bottle fittings. In the UK the regulator screws (left-handed thread as all fuel gases), direct onto the bottle. As do some French fittings! Some!
One neat way round this is to go to a good local caravan shop: they should be able to sell you an adapter, which allows you to use UK bottles and/or French bottles. For fixed installations (e.g. caravans, domestic cookers) many regs now are fixed to something other than the bottle and fed by a plastic house, with the required coupler.
One type of French gas bottle for propane, has a weird sort of bayonet fitting for the regulator, which plugs straight into the bottle.
Having modified a UK gas regulator with a French screw-on bottle fitting (which fits both regular propane and butane bottles in France) all I now need is a smaller gas bottle of propane, for my professional UK blowlamp. The French don't seem to believe in gas regulators for torches and I don't fancy lugging one of the big ones around as I plumb!
Bonne Appetite !