painterman

Ernie, I'm not suggesting to you that you quietly remove and dump the asbestos anywhere illegally. What our architect said to us was that if we wore appropriate breathing apparatus (which we have and will obtain new again to do that part of our job even though the fibro-ciment roof tiles are not damaged yet (but I'm not willing to take the risk with asbestos hoping that it will be ok up on the roof there for quite a while), and disposed of the asbestos properly, and to us this means packing it up (sealed completely to avaoid any risk to anyone else) and disposing of it properly at the correct dechetterie site that accepts dangerous and potentially hazardous waste. I would not quietly remove it and take it to a normal dechetterie putting other people at risk as that would be extremely irresponsible and I'm sure illegal. You mentioned that near Limoges you knew of a dechetterie that takes this type of waste, it may be useful to you to ask them about correct disposal procedures so that you fully understand what is involved. 'Forewarned is forearmed' so to speak. That way if anyone tries to 'fob you off', you will know that this is what they are trying to do, and you'll be able to correct them. I do not believe that you are underestimating the seriousness of asbestos disposal at all, but more that you are still at the fact finding stage so that you can act in your best interests when you are fully informed- if that means keeping notes and records too, do so, so that you can raise relevant important points that must be dealt with to your satisfaction with your builder, and if you choose the legal route your builder will know that you 'mean business'. Maybe the threat of taking legal action against him for breach of contract when you make him aware that you are fully informed will make him 'amicably' come and finish his contract correctly. If he has buried the asbestos to avoid disposal costs, then the legal system will be able to do deal with him. I expect that when I remove the fibro-ciment roof tiles that I will have to pay for disposal- how much it is I don't know, but I certainly would not try to dodge the proper method of disposal. I hope you can work things out to your satisfaction.  

Hi, again Ernie, I'm sorry that your situation is quite a complicated one and none too pleasant. I've just read the other person's comments too about informing the authorities and the danger of the site being declared contaminated. I don't know how much of the 'stuff' you have had buried there, but would you not be able to put on safety masks for breathing and carefully dig it up and dispose of it yourself at the appropriate dechetterie? I'm sure it would be a long hard job to undertake but it might save you some heartache and headaches in the long run if you tackled the problem slowly over the long term (if possible?). On the property we are trying to buy still, there are fibro-ciment roof tiles and the architect suggested that if we did our own roof repairs (capable of doing this) and disposed of the tiles appropriately that we wouldn't have a problem, but, that if we employed someone else to do the repairs that it would cost alot of money because they would have to be covered insurance- wise and have the correct gear, and dispose of it too at our expense. I'm not sure if this any help to you because it sounds as though you have a difficult situation with the contractors/sub-contractors, but is there anyone you could report the bad contractor to ?- maybe the chambre de commerce/chambre de metiers where these people seem to acquire their siret numbers from. Its just a thought because I don't really know, but there may be someone from those two authorities who can help you with a contractor not fulfilling his obligations correctly, but you may have to be vague about what 'rubbish' the contractor has buried to protect yourself whilst you find out the info' that you need. Good luck.

Hi Ernie, you could try asking at your local mairie's office if they know of a company that could do this for you, or perhaps if you have a telephone directory you could pop around to your neighbour's house and maybe they could tell you which companies offer this service in the area and help point one out to you from the directory? I'm not sure if French telephone directories are set out like they are in the UK but it may be worth a try. Or maybe your local tip('dechetterie' I think) would share the names of the companies they see who dispose of asbestos and so you could contact them this way. The Mairie's office will be able to tell you where the local tip is if you're not yet aware of it. Hope this helps.

I've recently bought a book called 'concise dictionary of house building terms' (arranged by trades) French-English/ English- French, compiled by Alan S Lindsey published by Hadley Pager Info. ISBN : 1872739113. It cost me £27.00 but I think it's well worth it to learn how to say lots of the bits and pieces we are going to need in the future. It has nearly 300 pages. The book has 14 sections covering the architect, earthworks and foundations, builder, carpenter and joiner, roofer electrician, glazier etc..... I think it's really good- very useful if you need to translate to someone what it is that you need to convey, especially useful for when you may be at the builders merchant.  I also bought some DIY style books from Leroy Merlin in Calais. They were 5.90euros each . I'm sure they're not to everyone's taste but for learning the language in French even though the work itself is 'easy' to do when you've learned how to do these things before.  Anyhow, these books are pretty handy too:  (some were all in one section at the store but one or two were dotted about elsewhere in their own relevant store sections) [accents omitted because I don't know how to put those in here correctly yet] 1. depannages electriques de l'installation ISBN 2737241480 (means breakdown of electrical services installation/ thereabouts) 2.Les chapes et dalles ISBN 2737241545 (covers and flagstones techniques of work) 3.Les cloisons en carreaux et plaques de platre ISBN 2737241219 (translated very literally as: partitions in squares and plasterboards) 4. la Maconnerie pas à pas ISBN 2737241162 (masonry step by step) 5. L'installation electrique dans les pieces d'eau ISBN 2737241510 (translation thereabouts as: the electric installation of water rooms- eg bathroom is shown on front cover) 6. la plomberie  pas à pas ISBN 2737241189 (plumbing step by step ) 7. sa baignoire choisir et installer ISBN 2737241405 (bath- tub to choose and install) 8. la douche choisir et installer ISBN 2737241367 (the shower to choose and install) 9. l'amenagement des combles conseils et concepts d'architectes ISBN 2737241626. (the installation of the roofs. councils and concepts of architects.) So now I've got myself a very mini 'library' of DIY French style books, I just need to translate them.   I just thought I'd share it with whoever may find it useful too. Now all I have to do is learn how to  translate them even though many of the words seem a little familiar..... If anyone else out there has found any really useful renovating books as they've undertaken their project I'd be very grateful if you would share the title/ISBN on the back (usually) of the book. --------------------------------- Also, a book I could really do with finding is one which clearly shows how to fit insulation under a concrete slab (lounge floor to be) whereby the insulation is only fitted around the perimeter but a square/rectangular area is left in the middle for the floor to breathe. It is a very old house we are buying and the architect we have seen says that perimeter insulation is the way to go. Or have I misunderstood something because putting a concrete slab down as the floor usually involves a DPC membrane, but the architect says that using perimeter insulation will allow the floor and room to breathe to help alleviate condensation problems when you begin to heat up an old stone house with a wood burning stove. If anyone can help with this I'd be very grateful, because the building books I've been trawling the internet for become very expensive when they're not the right ones (and you can't try before you buy unless I have the title and authors/ISBN's to check the books out at a large reference library).  Many thanks in advance  for any suggestions, and all gratefully received.    

Thank you for that link on ' minitel' - interesting.... especially when we finally manage to move out to France as we won't have access to a computer because we won't have any electricity to start with either.  Also, unless I misheard today on the BBC 2 Working Lunch program, Credit Agricole are trying to put in a bid to buy Alliance & Leicester . I don't think therefore that ordinary Cedit Agricole customers need to worry at all about their money in the bank. Not sure how the Britline fraud investigation is going though. There must be some safe guards on money though in France (?)  because if you ask in any bank or building society here in the UK about the rights of having your money returned to you in the event of the bank running into serious cash flow problems, then there are limits (say up to 30K initially, but then a percentage of the remaining balance)- but I don't think folk should panic/ worry about it though as someone said on this thread that the French are somewhat delighted in a way that the fraudstaer is English and so they will probably make an example of him to discourage others. Thanks again for the minitel link!

Oh dear, I have digressed from the points being made on the original thread. Very sorry, it had caught my eye originally because there is a Credit Agricole in a small town near where we are trying to buy 'our' house, and so points regarding integrity of the bank involved (CA) and their customer service is of interest to me. Still , I hope my 'little' (sorry not so little) digression helps someone else. I shall be watching this thread too to see what happens to the man (who was) at the top of Credit Agricole. [:)]

Sorry, forgot to mention, that whilst I've been looking into info in this Finance section, others have been mentioning the bank accounts at La Poste ( the post office?) that sound uncomplicated and easy to run. We will be looking into this at some point in the future because Toulouse is now a long way away from where we are trying to buy a house. People have mentioned the charges from La Poste and they seem to be much lower than what we have been paying so far, but in the meantime it is convenient for us to deal with Toulouse via email/ telephone/ letter and fax.I believe there is also something called 'minitel' but I'm not sure what this is. Good Luck. 

Hi    P, Yes  there is a minimum amount I believe but the banks customer service staff would be able to help you for what minimums applied to which types of account. In the past we have called in to the branch and been able to withdraw some money but we did see the conseiller de clientele at the time. It has been a long time since we needed to call in to draw cash. We have found it is easier to pay by debit card or by cheque and so don't need to carry cash ( except little bits, as you do.) Mr Jefferies would be able to explain how things are done there for you I'm sure.  We are still UK based so for us being able to see the amounts on our statements to ensure all is accounted for directly from our account is working out the  best method for us. If you are so close to Toulouse and already living in France then you could maybe telephone there to arrange an appointment? Their telephone number in Toulouse is 05.61.99.41.14 and you need to ask for Mr Jefferies, the conseiller de clientele. If he's busy with clients, I'm sure that you could arrange to speak with him at a time convenient to you both. I hope this helps. We've been very happy with their standard of service.

This is a message for PIXIETOADSTOOL: If you've been having problems with transferring your money to France from your local Natwest Bank then tell your local branch to give you the telephone number of their International Services Branches and you could then ring them directly. There used to be one in Bradford, West Yorkshire a long time ago and the staff were 'cracking' at their jobs- very helpful.  Now though we use Barclays. This is because Barclays can open a euro current account and euro savings account in the UK for you to pop those extra bits of money into, which is handy when it comes to withdrawing it because you are not at the mercy of the exchange rates because it has already been done when you pay your money in. So, if you pay in when the exchange rates are in the pounds favour (and you generally get commercial rates not tourist rates as we have found) your money goes a little further, and if you encash it by the eurocheques they give you in the branch (the International Branch is based at Poole but your local Barclays deals with that aspect it is not something you have to worry about) when you need your money out to take abroad, then you are unaffected if the exchange rates is not as advantageous- but conversely if the pound gets even stronger against the euro well it's hardluck then. As for transferring your money from these accounts to France it is easy- the 'in branch foreign exchange till' staff can help you with the international payment form (whether it is for standard transfer or urgent transfer), just make sure that you have an IBAN number handy (IBAN as you probably know is for International Bank Account Number) for the French bank account you need to send your money to.  You could also set up an account with Barclays Bank in France very easily as they have a branch in Paris and Toulouse that I know of. Here they have a ' Conseiller de Clientele' person who speaks English (or is in fact English). If you sent this person at Barclays Bank in France ( he is a Barclays Bank  memeber of staff at Toulouse)  an email I am sure that he would help : [email protected]   This person had helped us in the past. If you sent him a brief email of what you need he would be able to recommend an account type, debit/ credit card in France,  statements, cheque book and paying book for your account in France etc.Tax return form filling in in France...... and this helps with running your account when you are in the UK. He makes the money side of things- international transfers,  problem free. I hope he doesn't mind me putting his email on here but they are given out on his business card from the bank. ( I am not a representative of this bank but have just had excellent quality customer service and advice).   It is just so similar to having an English bank account. The only thing you need to be aware of is that French Banks in general  charge on current accounts even when you are in credit, unlike UK banks where banking is pretty much free for the general things when you are always in credit. I know it sounds a bit like an AD for Barclays Bank, but they are very good. The only down side I can think of is that they are not local like the Credit Agricole branches, but your money is safe! You can use telephone and fax to contact him, or email or old fashioned post by letter. I hope this (rather long winded) info helps you Pixietoadstool because it sounds as though your Natwest need a bit more staff training.....  

We were looking into this a couple of months ago. If you have a look at the thread in this section on ' page 10 of 96' at the top of the page is a question by Bannon- "wood Burners ... again " 8/3/2006 17.06 pm. Quite a few people had useful input that might help you. Our added note to it was in short : To calculate how many Kw of heat a room needs is Kw = H x W x D and divide by 14 (so this is the Height X Width X Depth of your room, basically its volume), and then if you wanted to work out how many BTU's this is .... :  BTU'S = H x W x D divide by 14, and then multiply by 3400.  This is what we were told by a local installer of woodburning stoves, but I have read other threads which say that you need to take into account what materials your room is made from as its 'envelope' for holding in all that heat. So you need to think about windows, insulation, walling, ceiling materials etc. I'm not sure how much detail to go into on this one, we were happy with the basics for now, but the options are ther for you to look into if you wish. I'm sorry I don't know much more about this, yet....

There is a magazine that we bought recently in France called  ' Système D' hors séries , les bricothèmes and in it we found an 'ad' saying " tous les livres pour construire & rénover", www.architravaux.com there are  different editions of books for different types of houses 'maisons du sud, maisons modernes, maisons traditionnelles, maisons en bois' etc which if I have translated it properly in my mind are books showing  60 different plans (architect plans) in each book.  Now I have never actually seen inside one of these books because I haven't bought one and so I don't know if they are any good or not ( and I don't have any links to the web site thingy above or the people selling these books), but if you have a fax number I'll fax you a copy of the ad out of the magazine I bought if you would like to pm me with your number . I hope I'm not breaking any advertising rules on here, but I know others have mentioned DIY store/building merchants names before so I hope that this is ok. If it's not, then I apologise in advance to the administrators, and so please remove the posting if you need to. I think I'll just go back and have another read of the rules when I'm done with this because I don't know how to save what I've already written otherwise. 

Don't forget to do an itinery of what you expect (and therefore ensure by the seller's signature) to be there at the property eg- fittings such as cupboards, light fittings etc, and don't forget to include garden soil/ plantings/ walls (as in our case they've been taken away.... if you want to read about a good old moan then see our other bit of writing on this site to do with buyers stripping a property.... or maybe not...). Anyhow, make sure that you have an itinery included in your clause suspensives on anything that you sign, especially on the compromis de vente, this applies even if you know the people you are buying the house from or not because you never know......  . Also have an 'must complete by' date written in the compromis de vente or whatever you agree to formally sign before this because our saga has been ongoing since last summer (ten months now) and the house still isn't ours. Good  luck though, can't be that many out there in our position. :) 

We thought that by asking about having an itinery as you would expect one in the UK, was a good idea, but to be told by the immobiliere that this is written in the acte de vente, not the compromis de vente (and yes I am very sure that I understood the terms correctly and I checked my understanding of them at the time with the estate agent) and he assured us that this was how things were done in France ( this was last summer). We do feel well and truly had. We are considering reporting this estate agent, but we shall wait until we are in France to find out who to report him to for his dishonesty so far. The sellers told us very recently that they had hoped that because an English couple were buying the house that everything would be finalised within three months, and we had expected this too. The delays and misinformation are all due to the estate agent, and we have been constantly pushing for answers since the 'deadline date for completion' passed only to be told by the estate agent that the delays were due to the french system. We didn't know last summer that most french house sellers strip their properties, but asking for an itinery should have covered us, and an honest estate agent would have allowed us to itemise objects, even the soil as part of the land. We still can't believe it that the sellers took it, maybe selling soil is 'good money' over there for someone, but we do want to get along with them as they are local and wonder if the seller was trying to recoup some costs due to the delays? When we finally met the sellers, and we went looking for them, and found them, apparently the estate agent had been telling the sellers that the delays were our fault. We showed the sellers all our correspondence, a very large set of A4 ring binders full of copy letters sent by registered post with the postal receipts. The sellers were not happy with the estate agent. We believe that the estate agent may well have been trying a little scam..... delay things for long enough, either the seller or the buyer pulls out of the agreement, and hey presto, the estate agent has a nice 10,000 euros bonus for doing virtually nothing for nearly a year.   We will only deal with the notaire now, not the estate agent. So if anyone does take time to read through all of this, when you are searching for your hoped for home abroad, buy the property through a notaire, or if through an estate agent, insist that you choose your own notaire and find him/her through the local mairie's office, always send things by registered post to be signed for upon receipt, write your own itinery of what items (or ground/ grassed area)  you want to be left there and in what condition and ensure that before you sign anything for anyone that the seller is willing to leave those items there for you (negotiate a price if necessary), and make sure that those items are listed as part of the conditions of purchase(only if the purchase of the property goes through to completion though, as there is a subtle difference, and vagueness and trusting of people seems to be the largest problem) in any contract that you sign. In short keep your money safe and firmly in your 'pocket' until you have checked everything out, and ensure that you actually meet the sellers before you sign anything, as our estate agent didn't want us to meet the seller until the supposed day of the signing of the acte de vente, and this date has still yet to be agreed! It is a shame that trusting people to keep their word is a problem in today's world. Everyone seems so grasping, but if you want to keep your money safe, keep things formal (as we have done with formal correspondence, not over bottles of wine), keep a written record of everything and every phone call conversation, and don't allow an estate agent to keep 'fobbing' you off- go direct to the seller and your notaire, at least this way we have finally been able to make a little headway. Good luck to all in the searching and purchasing process right now.   

We are in the process of trying to buy a house in France, its been an epic nine months wait so far basically because the estate agent (we have just discovered) has been saying that he has sorted certain matters out when in fact he has not, and what very little he has done for his 10,000.00 euros fees has been done incorrectly, so we have to start with the paperwork again.... However, a word of warning, our estate agent would not let us make out an itinery  of what was there at the property to be included when we watched him write out the compromis de vente. He told us that there was no need and that everything that was there would be included in the acte de vente. The person we are buying the house from has now removed (dug away and removed from the property) a few hundred tonnes of soil. The landscape of the property is now therefore changed, and we can not do anything about it- right down to the bedrock! It is about nearly half an acre of soil's worth. There is nothing we can do, it's gone, except try and find someone we can buy some top soil from now. They have also removed all the cow muck from the barn which we could have tried to use as compost to begin 'making' some top soil from again from scratch. So this is as we believe all the wrong doing of the estate agent not communicating what we had said we required for the land to be left as it was, as for internal fittings- there are none except two doors (at least last time we looked).  If you are thinking of buying in France, do not trust your 'friendly' estate agent person, and make sure that in the compromis de vente you insist that you include an itinery, maybe write down what is there at your 'hoped for property' on a pad of paper as you view the property and take photos, that way you will have the items that you believe you are paying for at the end. For us it is too late, we feel well and truly 'ripped off' especially since we were told the itinery bit was to be done later, so it wasn't as if we hadn't asked about it. Our estate agent was (is) we believe dishonest- buyers beware. Unless we want to make a few enemies with our commune, which we don't, we now have to put up with the situation, but still can't believe that someone would take away the soil (7ft deep x 30ft x 140ft of soil), and it was alot of soil!!!!  

Hi, although we haven't yet managed to complete on our french home yet (epic 8 month wait so far) we have been looking into wood burning stoves. We used to have a stove called a 'much wenlock' which was a multi-fuel stove- it was pretty good for us. We'd have another definately except that its a multi-fuel stove and the fire shops we've been looking into have had staff who have told us that we would be better off buying a stove that is just for wood, not wood and coal because of their design and efficiency testing which is done on beech and ash wood. We were told that to calculate how many Kw of heat we'd need for a room we'd need to do this calculation: Kw = H x W x D and divide this by 14 So Kw = Height  x  Width x  Depth of room divided by 14 (so basically the volume of the room divided by 14) This can then be compared to the literature the shops/ technicians give you either over the phone or in person. Also if you needed to know how many BTU's this is the equivalent of then times your answer by 3400. (eg: BTU's = (H x W x D divide by 14) and then multiply  by 3400 ) This should help you to work out what size in Kw or BTU's you need for your room sizes. We've been looking into the Herald range of stoves from one of many suppliers we've been looking at, and we are still looking so can't and won't say if any are better than others because at this point we don't know and so you'd need to have a look on the internet too, but, when I rang the supplier they told me that when you choose to have a boiler option fitted for hot water and radiators that  the wrap around boiler option which is welded into the wood burning stove of their 12-16Kw model when they are made, gave out 45,000 BTU's, and that the 12-16Kw average equated to 3Kw room heat and 13Kw boiler for water (10 radiators) , but in comparison the clip in style boiler that you can buy and fit later only gave out 24,000 BTU's which is shared as 9Kw for room heating and 7Kw for the water. They told us ( at various shops) to be aware of the dimensions of the rooms that the fire would be sited in because too high a heat output might occur in a room if we were trying to heat alot of radiators making the room the fire was in too warm to be in comfortably but that if we tried to turn this fire down too low to make it comfortable in that room that the radiators in the other rooms may not get as warm as we would like (looking at the 10 radiator option). We are therefore thinking things through very slowly and taking the time to check it out as one stove can cost the best part of £900 plus all the other bits we're finding that have to be added on that don't come as standard. Also there is a minimum flue height of 4.5m but this is for British building regulations we are told. If anyone knows what the French miminum height for building regs for wood burning stove flues is then we'd like to know please too because it would help in the plans of our heating system..... when the house is eventually ours...... Hope this answers your question a bit/helps. From Painterman and wife.   

I know that this posting was a while ago, but do you happen to know if the 20M agricultural building rule applies to straw and hay storage only in an open hangar style barn, or is it for agricultural buildings with chickens or sheep. We were told the ruling was 50metres for habitation away from cows which is sensible due to TB. ...but 20m away as a 'blanket' ruling might be a problem for the CU we are trying to get on a farmhouse we are trying to buy.  I'd be very grateful of a reply even this is now March. Painterman

Thanks for your reply too. The house is a tiny 79 metres square. We need the CU for a change of use for the attic on the house(store area) and for change of use for a barn and pigsty in to dwelling space as they join onto the tiny house. The 170 metre sq rule definately applies to us. Our notaire is putting in the application for the pre- operational CU  we are now told, and this will take another one to two months, but the estate agent said it would take another three to four months which is quite unprofessional. If we were to pull out of the purchase we would have to pay penalties and still have to pay the 10,000 euros for the estate agent fees if we have translated the small print on the compromis de vente properly. As it is, we do not want to have to pull out of the purchase, we want to buy this farmhouse and convert the barn and pigsty into a house my family and I could live in. As in my reply to Will the conqueror and Vicky bear, we think that it will be best to wait for the CU, especially if it is borderline, because if the CU is not granted for us to be able to convert the barn and pigsty and renovate the house then at least we should be able to have our deposit back from the estate agent, albeit nearly a year after having paid it. (8months so far). Best wishes Painterman

Thank you for your reply. We were told by the estate agent who did our compromis de vente that we should have had everything completed by December 2005. He also told us that he had submitted the application for the CU and for the septic tank. Unfortunately he admitted a couple of weeks ago that he had not in fact done this, and that the seller's notaire had submitted the Cu but on the wrong parts of the property. We are very grateful to our French speaking notaire who now seems to understand what has been going on through the English speaking notaire as they at least are dealing with this professionally. We have been told not to trust the estate agent, which is a shame but probably true. We hadn't wanted to upset anyone and thankfully we have not been angry with anyone but we have kept our patience. It it costing us though for the extra time we are having to spend over here in the UK as there is little point being in France when all we can do is wait. The property is an old farm that we are trying to buy. We would like to keep a small part of it for agriculture and have included these details in our plans to the notaire. It is definately over the 170 metre square ruling though with regards using an architect, and so we know that we will have to use one for the permis de construire. What we are unsure of though is who the plans belong to if we were to ask an architect to draw them up/copy them from ours with regards French building reg's. The property is still owned by the farmer until we complete and we have read that the owner must submit the plans not prospective owners. We don't want to pay for something and then find that the owner decides not to sell the property. We wish with hindsight that we had added that to the compromis de vente too, but with your comments taken on board about there maybe being a hint that the CU is borderline (the farmhouse is empty has no bathroom or toilet or kitchen) and that this may be the reason for the delay, we shall wait until an answer is returned on the CU before asking any architect to draw up plans. Once again thank you Will the conqueror and Vickybear  for taking the time to read and reply to my questions. I've just been out to buy the book about renovating property in France- it looks like a good book but there isn't enough info about architects contracts in it. I think we need to organise ourselves for eventualities and have formalised questions ready in writing for the architect of choice when we find one. Kind regards Painterman.

Hi, I hope someone can help by answering our questions.( New to this forum, except we have already asked one person about English speaking notaires.) We are in the process of buying a dilapidated farmhouse with outbuildings and barns and whilst it has taken an epic 8 months so far, we are not sure if we are 'jumping the gun' a bit. We signed the compromis de vente July 2005 for the house etc and put in a clause suspensive about obtaining a CU and permission for a septic tank but believe that we have had improper service regarding this from the estate agent. After advice from someone on this forum we were put in touch with the notaire who speaks English and things finally seem to have begun moving along with regards to the CU and septic tank. The notaire is putting in a pre-operational CU application which we hope will give us a positive answer. However, the notaire asked me for drawings of the property and what materials we would use and what work we wanted to do on the buildings because we have asked for a change of use for one part of the building from a barn to additional dwelling space because the house is soo tiny. We have sent him scale 1:100 drawings (plans and elevations and dimensions and photos) but we know that we need to use an architect. Our worry is this, as we haven't still yet completed on the property, and some info' we found on a website states that only the owner of the property can put in for planning permission, then if we pay for an architect to draw up the proper plans  (costly at least 5000 euros we have been told) then who do the plans belong to- us or the present owner who is selling to us? Does anyone have any advice on how best to agree a contract with an architect in France? We have some UK building experience of our own but have never needed to use an architect before. We don't want the architect to project manage things as we want to do the work ourselves over a longish period of time. It has all taken so long to get only this far and we don't want to be duped into paying for architects plans for someone else to benefit if the seller suddenly decides that he doesn't want to sell anymore. We can't understand all the delay and we are feeling frustrated and fobbed off before we have even got to France to live there. We are not sure what the estate agent has been up to but he told us in July 2005 that he had put in the application for the CU, and yet only this past month because the English speaking notaire is helping us (in addition the the French notaire chosen by the estate agent for us who doesn't speak English), is anything happening at all. We paid our deposit for the house last July too and were told that things take time- but this long.... it has given us alot of time to worry. The only good thing so far is that at least when the English speaking notaire asked us for what plans we had for the property, we were able to send proper drawings and plans. I know this is all very long winded and I do hope that someone out there will share a bit of their knowledge about this, but 8 months for buying a house seems to be taking the mickey out of us , so to speak, and we are quite fed up. Any help, gratefully received.