chicfille

"so many of my french friends don't have any idea about cooking and seem almost frightened of it" ...might that be because of the strict "rules" of French cuisine? There's not a lot of room for innovation, or the "a bit of this, bit of that" approach so favoured by imperfectionists like me! 

Unfortunately no one can tell you what to do, nor whether your children will adapt well or not. Chances are if you've got 5 kids, some will like it and some won't. Many of us on here have "issues" with the French education system, but just as many others say how well their children are getting on with it. If you've learnt the language, read all the forums and done all your homework and you're still considering it then the only way to find out if everyone will like it is to do it. Just don't burn your bridges with home - move over for a trial 6/12 months or whatever, then re-evaluate.

I don't think anyone can claim that diet is responsible for all badly-behaved children, or that a good diet alone turns children into angels, but I'm sure that good diet and good parenting often go together. I totally agree re breastfeeding. I fed mine for 12 and 14 months respectively, much to the shock of my French in-laws, who don't know the first thing about breastfeeding and did all they could to discourage me! One friend even breastfed her own daughter after seeing me do it, realising how easy it was and noticing with amazement that you don't have to remove all (or any!) clothing. So few babies are breastfed here that I sometimes feel I'm on a one-woman crusade to promote it. Few of my female French friends have mothers who breastfed (unlike me), so have no family source of advice or encouragement. Such a shame. I' m sure it sets babies up for better health, if they continue to be fed good food of course!

At the otherwise excellent primary school my daughter attended in the UK before we moved to France, everyone got all excited when they could at last offer hot meals twice a week, brought in by an outside caterer (the school has no kitchen so children previously have to bring packed lunches). But I said no way when I saw what was on offer: Turkey burger or veggie burger, followed by chocolate crispy cake, to quote a typical menu. All served appetisingly in a McDonald's style polystyrene box to be eaten with fingers. Of course at their new school in France, things couldn't be more different and they eat some fantastic food- no choice, no complaints. I went out of my way when they were very little to ensure they had a varied and fresh diet and now my girls are good eaters (and not overweight!). I never buy "children's food" because beyond the baby stage there should be no such thing. Feeding my daughter's friends when they came for tea was a nightmare because they are so used to processed pap that they don't know what to do with a home-cooked casserole. And we have French friends whose children are as bad with food as some British ones, incidentally. Hooray for Jamie!

[quote]I am a little confused about what age children a re in each year group. I understand that they can drop back a year or go forward but what is the norm. My son is 10, his dob is 13/11/94 so will b...[/quote] Unlike in the UK, children are grouped (initially at least) according to their birth year, so all children born in 1998 started primary school last September, whether they had been 6 since January or didn't turn 6 until December. Current school years relative to birth year are: CP: 1998 CE1: 1997 CE2: 1996 CM1: 1995 CM2: 1994 6e: 1993 So your son would be in CM2.

"A Pavlova is usually very well received, maybe because it looks fluffy and colourful?" - True, though in the past I've had complaints (from my husband mainly) about the over liberal use of cream which the French are apparently not used to! So Eton Mess might be a better option, if its lack of precision presentation can be tolerated

I'm so glad you brought this up, it's one of my pet subjects!  My least favourite French "cake" is the financier, which, when well made tastes like a boring fairy cake without the lightness, or any icing to make it more interesting, and when badly made might as well be a brick. WJT - the quote you mention is from "60 million Frenchman can't be wrong". In my experience the French tend to be a bit nonplussed if you produce a homemade dessert - they are so used to the usual tartes etc that they don't know how to react to something they don't recognise! I made the mistake of making a proper trifle (jelly-free) for some French friends once. They weren't very polite about it at all! And once I made a French tarte aux poires (the kind with almond) and one friend criticised it because I hadn't cut the pears up in quite the right way! I've bought my dinner party puddings ever since, because I can't bear the hassle. But I still make and decorate proper sponge cakes for my children's birthdays, and whenever else I feel like it, because as you say, there's nothing better! My sister in law, who is considered by the family to be something of a cake master, kindly made a chocolate cake for my daughter's birthday recently, but my 5-year-old daughter rejected it on the grounds that the outside was rock hard and the inside rubbery. She was right of course, but everyone else oohed and aaahed over its deliciousness (except me, I had to agree with my daughter only couldn't say so).

I'm all for proper home made custard tarts (nutmeg and all), in fact I love them! Just not the ones I see in certain shop windows. French flans are indeed rubbery and horrible, my kids hate them and so do I. When I first tried one I had to go home and make one myself with a recipe from my French cookery book, once just to make sure they were supposed to be like that, and unfortunately they are.  I too am a very selective consumer and am disappointed to see as much tat in French food shops as in English ones, especially the supermarkets, but I do like a good local bakery which are all too rare in the UK.

I like them too, and every time I go back to my home town I feel embarrassed when I see the excuses for cakes on display in an average UK bakery. All those rainbow coloured meringues and chemical custard tarts.... yuk. Give me (and many others it seems) a humble, flaky, with a spot of crème patissière in the middle, pain au raisin any day, with a big mug of tea of course, and I'm very happy. Do like the French do - if you're going to treat yourself, get something decent, made with love by a real patissier. Then really enjoy it. Then you don't get fat. Unless you do it more than five times a day.

The fonctionnaires of course!

Just recently and for no apparent reason we have been getting audio description when we watch Eastenders and it's really annoying (obviously not for those that need it, but we don't). Does anyone know how to get rid of it? We don't have Sky, just a French Thomson decoder, and despite searching through the menus we can't find how to switch it off. Any help gratefully received.

I'm new to this forum despite having lived in France for years on and off with my French OH. Liked this thread, here's my contribution... I was a little chubby when I first arrived here at 21 to spend the summer with my boyfriend his parents' house... and when I left my eating habits were completely different, the spare tyre vanished without effort (nothing to do with illicit activities either, ma-in-law would have none of that under her roof! little did she know...!) and has stayed off to this day, two babies later. It's all the quantity. I couldn't believe I could eat a 3 or 4-course meal twice a day and lose weight, but when ma-in-law produces a main course for 7 that in the UK would only be considered enough for 2, you don't get much choice. She fries everything in butter, they have a starter (often charcuterie) and cheese (more butter) at lunch and dinner and don't eat as many vegetables I am used to (and those they do eat are cooked to death)... and yet they are still all as slim as anything because they don't have much of each dish. That said, they've all got high cholesterol!  

The issue here isn't really whether or not your children will enjoy school day-to-day, as plenty of British ex-pat kids do (including mine most of the time), especially the youngest ones as they pick up the language so much more quickly than older ones and have little memory of anything else. The methods and approach that people are criticising here are more applicable at primary and secondary levels than maternelle. The question is what kind of education they will get at the end of it. I think the point everyone is trying to make is that people shouldn't make a permanent and irreversible move to France exclusively, or even mainly, to get a good education for their children, because the system isn't all it's cracked up to be. It might seem better to families who have found weaknesses in the UK system, but it has plenty of serious failings of its own which might only become apparent after several months or years.

[quote]I'm afraid I was seduced by the info in UK on french schools and was convinced my kids, then 7 and 9, would be much better off in French schools. I have learned a lot in the last 2 years, and would a...[/quote] So to parents just moved or planning to move to France - please look up alternatives to the local schools - with Montessori, or Steiner for example.  Caroline - this is exactly what we did. After an unhappy early experience at two French state maternelles followed by a couple of good years back in the UK I was after something better for my children when we had to come back here. We chose a Montessori school because we thought it would be less of a shock for them. In some ways we were right because their personalised, non-competitive approach to teaching has made it easier for the older one particularly to improve her French and work on her weak points without the stigma of constant low marks and being bottom of the class. However, they have to follow the national curriculum as well as the Montessori-recommended learning so it is very hard work. The pressure to work ever harder and achieve more is still there which my children have found difficult to handle and I have had to approach their teachers several times to sort various issues out. The older one also gets a lot of homework and does very little other than academic work, no art of any kind, no creative writing and little sport, all of which I believe contribute enormously to a good primary education.  So although the teaching methods are better and have undoubtedly made the transition easier, the state intrudes too much into the school and it falls is a long way short of the expectations I had for it.  

Here, here, well said. As a parent, it's my children's natural curiosity and questioning that I want their schooling to foster and develop. If they crush that by not listening when they ask 'why?', they will not, in my opinion, be well-educated, however many questions they may be able to get right at Trivial Pursuit! Noticing and giving sincere praise when a "thicko" tries his best or gets something right, giving measured praise and further challenges to the bright ones - those are methods that I saw in use in the UK and that keep children interested long-term. The French penchant for shouting, scaring or humiliating children into learning does the opposite. I for one was more than happy with the way my children were being educated in the UK, and fully intend to return there as soon as my French husband's job allows.  

The most agonising thing for me about education here is that children are only considered to be achieving if they work within the rigid framework set by the system. Bright pupils think they are succeeding because they get good marks (for regurgitating rote-learned facts, never for inspired thinking). The less acadamic get bad marks and are branded as failures right from the start. Any anyone who knows anything about the child's psyche knows that children almost invariably become what their parents/teachers constantly describe them as. No account is taken of other talents (sporting, artistic, etc) or of individual quirks. Far from being a partnership with the school, my children's education sometimes feels like a battle between me and them because the system imposes such unnecessary and rigid constraints on even the youngest children. Reforms are way overdue, but as you are all saying, the system is almost unreformable.

The only way children of immigrant families can become completely bilingual is if they keep learning their mother tongue, and by that I mean the written form. Even if British children survive the French education system and decide to go to the UK to university or to look for work, they won't get very far if they can't write reasonably correct English. I try to do some English with mine, but on top of their long days and endless homework it's almost impossible. My definition of a successful education is one that creates a balanced adult with a lifelong love of learning and provides decent prospects for the future. How I can go about educating my children with this aim is my dilemma! The UK system certainly encourages children to think for themselves but does not seem to cover enough actual learning, and the French system does the opposite. Any suggestions, anyone?

Izz I'm very interested in your plan to set up a school, but can you tell me where it is likely to be? Thanks!

Sarnia, EU students pay the same fees at UK universities as UK students. See http://www.educationuk.org/eu_faqs for lots of useful advice, including financial help. Your status as "home" or "EU student" is determined by your place of residence in the 3 years previous to uni entry, not your nationality, it seems. Fees at French universities are low - you pay "frais de scolarité" when you enrol at the beginning of the year which are currently between 150 and 250 euros. They are cheap but very overcrowded and consequently have high drop-out and failure rates. Other further education institutions (IUTs, "grandes écoles", etc) are different - competitive entry, higher fees, but lower drop-out/failure rates and much better job prospects afterwards.    

Well that has put me right off! Our daughters are at primary school in Rennes at the moment but we are wondering which collège to send them to later on. We were considering this programme but if this is what it is like for English-speakers.... no way! When looking for a primary school we visited the Ecole/Collège/Lycée Saint Vincent in Rennes which also has a bilingual programme, and although it was good and gets excellent results, we found it frighteningly bourgeois, very catholic and rather elitist. Children who arrive from other schools sometimes find their average marks fall dramatically - it is very competitive and demanding. We decided against it. So we don't know where to look for post-primary education... if we're still in France when the time comes.