Sprogster

steveant, I believe the crux of the matter is whether or not your friends have any realistic chance of finding meaningful employment in France. If they have already been in France three years and have struggled to find work during a period when the economy was relatively bouyant, then realistically their chances in the current enviroment must be even worse. The most important thing must be to keep the family together and if that means moving back to the UK, then that must be better then risk the stesses and strains of a hand to mouth existence in France, with the parents split between two countries struggling to find work. Unfortunately, the return rate of Brits who move to France and need to find employment in that country is very high, as France has always had a much higher unemployment rate than the UK and the social security charges make self employment uneconomic in many instances. That said if they do return to the UK, it does not mean they have failed, quite the contrary in that the family would have had a marvellous life experience of living in a foreign country.

"studied the sterling/euro rate for ten years". Has the euro existed for that long!

LyndaandRichard, Yes, the southern English climate has changed a lot in the ten years since you left due to climate change, with any snow now a rarity.  The norm now in southern England are mild wet winters little different from Autumn with the occasional cold dry snap and settled snow a rarity even in Kent, which being further east and away from the gulfstream tends to be colder. Hence the increasing quality of English wine and the interest of the French Champagne growers in the area, due to similarity of the terroir. I even believe Aviemore in Scotland has had to close its Ski resort, for several recent Winters due to lack of snow. My guess is that the main reason you have been pleasantly surprised by the milder Winters in your area of France, is that these have also changed for the same reason, as historically the centre was known for its very cold Winters!

You cannot generalise in comparisons between England and France, as the climate varies so enormously in the UK and indeed France and bearing in mind France and the Uk are only a few miles apart, it would be decidely odd if by crossing the Channel you found yourself in a sub tropical paradise! Winters in Southern England are usually mild due to the influence of the Gulf Stream and have been much milder in recent years, to the extent they have not been much different from recent bad Summers! Whereas Continental Europe away from the influence of a warm body of water is invariably colder, although not as rainy. A lot of people who move to France from the UK are surprised how cold the Winters can be and are taken aback with the amount of money they have to spend on heating their house. Having a house as far South as you can go in France, within sight of the Med, it always amuses me come late October when all the ice warning roadsigns go up. As most summer visitors have no idea that regular night time Winter temps often go well below zero. 

Apparently, it is likely that the payment charges will be challenged by the regulators as they bear no relation to the banking costs involved. As although, most low cost carriers charge a payment fee for each passenger and each flight, the total charge is put through as one total payment to the card company and for a debit card the cost to the airline is only pennies. I think we have a battle of wits going on between the customer and the low cost airlines, in that to protect their business model of being able to advertise at the lowest possible price, they have to make it as difficult as possible for customers to avoid paying for extras. Otherwise, if everyone just paid the cheapest fare and avoided any extras, they would go bust in short order! Just one more thing, don't pay for priority boarding as on some airlines it is not capacity restrained and in theory eveyone on the flight can have it if they are willing to pay!!

Having just made a couple of bookings on a low cost airline for the first time in several months, is it just me or are the low cost airline websites being constantly re-designed to be  confusing and make it more difficult to avoid incurring extra charges accidentally. As rather than opt in you have to increasingly opt out of paying for insurance, checked in luggage and priority boarding amongst others. Sometimes I have picked up on optional charges being reinstated that I have removed, as the web page refreshes, so you really need your wits about you. Then you are bombarded with hire car and hotel options and this can make keeping an eye on the total fare even more tricky as the web page is made more and more cluttered. The latest wheeze seems to be to reduce the hand luggage allowance so it is more difficult to avoid the charges for checked in luggage, then having also reduced the weight allowance for checked in luggage introduce another supplementary charge for heavier checked in luggage. Add to the equation stricter enforcement of the weight allowances and you can see what the airlines are up to! That leaves the credit/debit card charge scam, in that the only reason the Visa Electron card is selected as the one card you can use without paying a surcharge, is that less than 10% of the population have one and it is not readily available being aimed primarily at students. However, if the airlines did not allow one card to be charge free then the credit/card debit card payment charges would cease to be optional and would have to be included in the headline price of the ticket. As more people obtain a Visa Electron card, expect the airlines to announce that another obscure payment card is required to avoid charges, as payment fees are introduced on the Electron card!  

The biggest threat to low cost air travel in the future is going to be the international political pressure to reduce carbon emissions dramatically and the resulting escalation of taxes on airfares. For example, Ireland has just announced new taxes of £10 per passenger for long haul passengers and £4 for short haul. Short haul air travel is likely to be targeted more than long haul as there are viable better green alternatives such as the train and European governments such as France are keen to protect their high speed train networks from these upstart British and Irish low cost carriers! So regardless of the oil price expect to see European governments try to tax us of the plane onto the train. The trouble is that the TGV is not cheap!

The current economic problems are not comparable to the late eighties and early nineties, as unfortunately it is much worse with the current circumstances outside living memory for most people. As a result house prices are likely to fall much further and take much longer to recover than previous downturns. I don't believe the majority of Brits bought homes abroad purely for investment reasons, quite the contrary as from my experience the primary motivator was to get a place in the sun to escape the British weather!

Why does every question turn into a UK versus France debate? The current economic crisis is a global one and not specific to any particular country and the interest rate cut of half a per cent was implemented on a coordinated global basis to prevent the international banking system collapsing. The perception by the way that the French do not buy on credit is out of date, as I get as many unsolicited offers of credit cards in France as I do in the UK. Some posters may not see this, as after a certain age you tend to be dropped off mail shot lists as the marketing perception is that retired people are not active consumers.     

Jon, the current economic problems you allude to in the UK are global and the situation in France is no better, according to the dreadful economic figures published for the Eurozone yesterday, which shows France and Germany now in technical recession. Property prices in France are now being adversely affected as well, particularily in Paris where values have dropped sharply in recent months. More worrying, restaurants in France are really feeling the pinch with thousands going out of business!  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7634217.stm   Unfortunately, this period of economic turbulence is going to hurt wherever you are in the world.        

My wife and I have maintained for some years a cheque bank account in France with Soc Gen, just to pay the bills on our maison secondaire. Anyway, received last month a letter from the bank asking us to provide a copy of our last tax assessment, or a letter from our country's tax authority evidencing we were tax resident outside France. This was clearly a standard letter which presumably has been sent to all the banks non French resident clients.  I was a bit surprised, as the bank already holds other certified documentary evidence of our principle residence outside France, but presumably this is part of a crack down driven by the French tax authorities to weedle out foreign nationals resident in France, who have not declared themselves. Interestingly, I read in a paper the other day that the banks in Spain have recently implemented a similar requirement, so it would appear to be part of some EU initiative. Not a problem for my wife and I, but a bit tricky I would imagine for those who are 'perpetual tourists', as those with no permanent tax abode are sometimes termed! 

The strict rules that apply to French lending, only apply to French based lenders and in recent years many of the loans granted to British purchasers of homes abroad, were from British lenders, secured as second mortgages on their UK property.  Even where French lenders were concerned, the strict lending rules were not effectively applied to foreign buyers, as they relied on a self certification process being it very difficult to verify foreign debt. 

In France, New Year celebrations tend to be very much a family affair and take place at home around a large set diner, with public gatherings far and few between. As a result French towns and cities can be strangely quiet and subdued on New Years Eve, with all the action going on in private homes.  

Opening a bank account nowadays is a regulatory compliance nightmare, wherever you are. You will require official certified copies of your passport, evidence of your current residential address, such as original utility bill and documentary information as to the source of your funds and wealth. The latest additional requirement of the French banks is a copy of your last tax return, ot written attestation from your NZ tax authorities that you are currently NZ tax resident. Presumably, you are legally entitled to live and work in France, through EU parentage or hold the applicable residence and work visa?

Part of the problem comes down to the over protective employment laws in France, in that employees know their job does not depend on being helpful to customers! Mind you matters are not helped by the fact that French customers are not exactly known for being easy going either and therefore if you have to deal with agressive and over bearing customers everyday, service declines to a level of mutual disrespect! One area which highlights the difference in business service culture is in the UK it seems you are regularily bombarded with requests to complete customer feedback forms every time you buy something reasonably substantive, but I can never recall that happening in France, even when I bought a new car last year.

harry2325, One of the main considerations overlooked by people looking to move to France with school age children is the very high statistical risk they will have to return to the UK, usually for financial reasons. It is estimated that well over 60% of British people of working age who move to France return or move to another country within three years to five years. For children of primary school age this probably does not matter, but for children at secondary school, the disruption to their schooling can be damaging to their academic success, if they have missed critical areas of the syllabus.

Hi Chris, I think it is fair to say most of the members on this forum who have permanently moved to France are retirees and therefore probably not in the best position to advise on employment opportunities in France for a computer programmer. However, what I am sure everyone will emphasise is the importance of learning the language fluently and I would imagine in your line of work that includes the technical jargon. I would have thought one way to research job opportunities in France would be through your French girlfriends and her family's contacts, or your existing employer if they have a French office? Bon chance.

The larger debt collection agencies are often part of an international network of afiliated businesses, if not an international group, so it would just be a question of involving their associated office in the country here the debtor had moved to. Also debts can be factored ie: sold on and you may therefore find your new creditor who bought your debt less friendly in their collection methods! Another consideration, is that the credit reference companies like Experian are international companies, so your credit history can follow you wherever you move!

I have posted a link to an article in the Times on this increase in French tax on investment income. For French residents it is a just question of shut up and pay up, but for foreign non French resident investors in France who have a choice of which country they invest in, this increase highlights how unattractive France is becoming for inward foreign investment, at a time when it is desperately needed with a spiralling budget deficit and negative growth. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article4622158.ece          

lyndaandrichard, I had a look at your website and noticed it said thay France is the number one destination for Brits moving abroad. However, according to official stats Spain holds that status attracting far more Brits, probably in the main due to better weather in the winter. In fact I believe France actually ranks fourth in that more Brits go to Oz and the USA, with Oz now actively targeting Brits having substatively increased the Brit immigration quota over the last two years. You may be confusing the statistics with the numbers of Brits buying second homes abroad, rather than those permanently emigrating. When you moved did either of you have EU ancestry like a lot of people from OZ, as entitlement to an EU passport makes life a whole lot easier. Without which you have to prove to the French authorities you are not taking a job that could be done by another EU national.

Apologies again!

Apologies krusty, if my post came across as depressing, but it was mainly aimed at those in their forties and fifties, who are looking to take early retirement without a realistic understanding of the significant amount of capital you need behind you to finance an acceptable level of income for another possible thirty to forty years. In that one overlooks the erroding effects of inflation and that the UK State pension is being allowed to fall well behind the average annual increase in earnings.

krusty, you have hit the nail on the head, in that there are no real French direct equivalents to Easyjet and Ryanair as the French government are more concerned to protect the interests of Air France and the high speed rail network. In addition, French business bureaucracy and employment laws makes it difficult to apply the low cost business model!  However, Easyjet have a Paris hub and Ryanair are building a hub in Marseilles, but otherwise travelling from France by air, especially from the regions, to other continental European countries is a much more expensive excercise than from the UK.

Inflation, inflation, inflation, this is what now really matters. We have just had one of the longest periods of stable low inflation in modern history which has probably lulled many people into a false sense of security, believing that a modest pension provision can probably see them out. Not any longer, with escalating food and enegy costs, many people are just not going to be able to afford to retire, as few if any pension arrangements can keep up with the current levels of inflation. If you can only just afford to live on your pension now, how are you going to manage in five years time if food and energy costs have doubled, but your retirement income has onl;y increased by 20%?

House prices generally are falling everywhere, as most purchasers need a mortgage and the banks do not have enough money to lend due to the credit crunch.  Also in Dordgneshire there is a high percentage of second homes and in an economic downturn these are usual the first things to go, when people have to cut back on their expenditure.