opas
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Posts posted by opas
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According to the person I spoke with the green card is not valid as he has been working in the UK...work that one out.
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Just the loss of liberty and dignity for nearly 3 days.
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I have just rung the court, he has not even been `dealt with` yet!
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I finaly managed to get through to the MIB and the green card bureau, who said that everyting was OK. I asked if she could fax something through to the court, which she couldn`t but said I should ring the police(too late as he was due to go in court) so I rang the court,after a quick explanation with the receptionist she put me throught to the prossecution(she should have put me to defence aparently) but the lady who answered asked me what info I did have, s I explained out who I had spoken to , she got his file and then all hell broke loose! They asked me where he was going when he was stopped, I said he had told me he had had enough and was coming home, wheres Home? south of france. Then a disussion continued in the background that his insurance was french, I explained then the principle of green card cover(and gave her the number of the green card help desk) she asked when he had left UK < I told her and roughly the time of the ferry and the ferry company, by this time I was practically sreaming down the phone because I said I had tried to explain all that to the police , I said he has a french driving licence, id card(did not mention the term TDS as it probably would not mean anything. she took my number and dashed off to the court!
Waiting on a phone call now!
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Well talk about being caught betweena brick and a hard place!
I have honed the British Embassy in Paris....they cannot help because the incident is in UK
Ihave phoned the French Embassy in London, they cannot help because We are not French Citizens.
The MIB line is not even open yet.
My insurer was like a chocolate fireguard and said maybe this is the law in UK.
Now I am going to try the RAC to see if they can come up with anything
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[quote user="ErnieY"]
Leaving aside any talk of resisting arrest or non co-operation it seems to me that what has occured is simply the result of ignorance and overzealousness on the part of the UK police. I can't imagine that your average UK traffic cop has any greater knowledge or understanding of these issues than his equivalent flic in France.
From what you've said it seems that the question (in the police's eyes that is) of Mr O's residency is what's got him into this situation and is what will get him out and I think there might be a very simple way of establishing this.
If he is in receipt of an E106 a phone call either to DWP or HMRC (depending on which department issued it) quoting his NI number should give an instant and definitive answer. Coming from the police or a solicitor should be enought to bypass the dreaded and much abused Data Protection Act.
Good luck and keep your spirits up. I know it's natural to worry but Mr O is not in an danger and I'm sure will soon be liberated and you'll both be having a good laugh about it.
[kiss][kiss][/quote]
Do you know you are so right on that first point, we have a brit holiday home en face, he is a copper...not a beat bobby but a plain clothes one, he has not got a clue what is right and wrong as far as bringing a car to France( permanently_) so I assume he does not know the law in vice versa. And if our police in France knew the regs there would be a few less brit cars permanently driving around wouldn`t there!
No E106 that ran out a couple of years ago, he would be able to quote his NI number, as he obviously pays tax on the dosh he went to earn.....bank accounts would also quantify where he lives ..........as would our neighbours, they comment often enough that he has a great life only going away to work for a month a few times per year!!!!!!!!!!
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can I thank all the people who have sent me their best wishes and some very good advice.
I shall post the true outcome when it happens, a lot of it is hearsay, ie the duty seargent tells me he is there for insurance related matters, so I have to beleive the police don`t I?[8-)]
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I really hope that the court listens in the morning.
He has not been staying at an address, how many more times do I have to say that! He has visited my dad a couple of times and may have stayed the odd night. If he was staying in a formula 1 or the UK equivalent, that would not be classed as his home either would it?
he is a trucker, he has been doing what is known in the trade as tramping.......meaning he is out all week sleeping in his wagon. No he cannot work 7 sur 7 but if the waggon is not being used , or is waiting to be loaded, there is no reason why he cannot sleep in it!
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No not yet....I do not think he has looked at the driving forum yet.
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[quote user="Boiling a frog"]
My sympathy for the OP has now somewhat diminished following the revalation that the husband appears to have resisted arrest and that an assistance call by the original officer resulted in 6 police cars turning up.
I am afraid that I can never find any justification for resisting arrest and neither can the courts
That I suspect is the real reason he remains in custody.
Perhaps if the OP had revealed all the facts to start with then appropriate advice would have been given but I feel somewhat put apon having wasted time searching for information and giving advice without the true facts being revealed[:@]
[/quote]
Well sorry to have wasted your time!
I think even I would have thought it was a joke if I was told that I was under arrest for not having valid insurance when I knew I had. I couldn`t beleive it myself this morning when I was told.
Mr O is no spring chicken you know, he will be 47 next week and is an unfit16 stone (he doesn`t sound too apealing when put like that) I cannot see why it would take more than 3/4 people to handle him.
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Come on be serious , would you go willingly and say it is a fair cop, when it is not?
The real reason as given to me for him being there is because the green card insurance is not valid.
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[quote user="Bob T"]I have been watching this thread with interest as I never believed that the UK police would, or could, arrest anyone without good reason and would never get them to court either.
I can now see cracks appearing. Why would six police cars turn up to arrest someone? They must have had good reason to send six as they would not have all been there at the same time for a routine check. I cannot imagine the cash strapped UK police calling for backup because someone has suspect insurance documentation.
Refusing to give an address where one is staying, having told the police that one is working temporary, is an arrestable offence in itself.
I am sure that if the person arrested is guilty of nothing then there will be no problem and everything will be fine in the end.
[/quote]He wouldn`t have refused to give an address , he hasn`t got a UK address to give! Sometimes I have stuff sent to my Dads that cannot be sent to France...they are then picked up by whoever goes to the UK first, if it is Outie, he may cadge a bed and use of the washer , but it would not be fair to say it was his UK address as it is not.
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All his ID papers will marry up, passport with photo, TDS with photo Driving licence with Photo, insurance docs with same name and address in France.
It is the insurance issue we are discussing here , not charactar assasin . some folks just cannot wait to have another pop can they. Well leave of you misserable git because it is my emotions you are playing with now NOT OUTCASTS got it!
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[quote user="Ron Avery"][quote user="Puzzled"]
A Sunday solicitor will probably be just a solicitor's runner with little legal experience and even less knowledge of EU law. Best chance of finding answers today is probably going to come from this forum.
[/quote]
What a load of ill informed tosh, a duty solicitor is a duty solicitor is a duty solicitor, and as for this Forum being the answer to outcast's problems, well as they say "you are having a laugh mate". "Let me go because some bloke in France on French Forum said you can't keep me locked up[:-))]
It might escaped some people's attention and I appreciate that some, though not all, are trying to help, that you don't get arrested and kept in cells for driving whilst uninsured nor is it an EU law offence. He has been arrested for an offence under UK law which a UK policeman and/or custody sergeant are probably quite well informed over and the duty solicitor would be a darn sight better inforned about UK law than any of the barrack lawyers on this Forum. You sure old outcast was not his charming old self to the boys in blue???
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You malicious Bastard. the word edited out was mild compared to the one I wanted to use
I do beleive he would have put up resistance to arrest, and has told me he was kicked in the head by one of the coppers who jumped out of the 6 yes six cars that turned up!!!! The only reason he is there now is because he does not have a UK address, he will not give my fathers as he is 83 and in ill health. I assume that they think he would skip the country if they had just issued a summons.
EDIT BY OPAS Tues19 th .
HE HAS TOLD ME HE DID NOT RESIST ARREST
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Oh all these questions to be thought about.
He left here on tuesday 22 April to catch a ferry on Wednesday, it was orriginally booked for a different car, which sprung a leak in the water pump about a week before departure. No problem with the ferry and he has probably got the documentation for that and I certainly have it on the email system, and bank receipt.
No return ferry booked as he wasn`t too sure as to how the work would pan out, I was to be booking him a ferry for Friday as things were going OK, but this last job must have not been up to scratch as he told me on the phone that he was going to Dover and was to suprise us all by being here for sometime today!
He can provide pay slips for the past 4/5 years showing that he does this regular and we have always been carefull with the 30 day rule for insurance.
I have looked at al those websites and am now bamboozled, that is what I have been doing since about 7.15 this morning,
I am a little wary of contacting the centre again as I must have rung 4 times for various reasons. I am also at the momment a little dubious about faxing any info to them , I do not want Mr O to be malteated in any way! but If someone can use their brains for me and suggest which piece of info they should look at, I would gladly take up the offer of the poster who said they would do it on my behalf.
I really am stuck untill tomorow morning and by the time I get through to anyone he will already be in court 09.30 i beleive.
oh one last point, he is on a French driving licence , we both have been for about 4 years..........how will that work out?
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[:D]
Never been to court myself, except on jury sevice about 30 years ago.
So what if the powers that be tomorrow are using the same bit of mis-information that the police have obviously used?
I do not see some magistrate reading our forum today and then using that in court tomorrow, How do they get the clear cut answer and where do they get it from.....because I want to see that same bit of info.
I am so frustrated . I know I should not leave the house for fear that I miss an important call....but I feel some fresh air is needed now.
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I have just re telephoned the place he is being held, he has seen a solicitor. I asked to speak with MrO but they said they had too many in the cells to deal with phone calls, but I could try this evening and if it has quietened down then we could speak.
I was also told off for telling him that they were holding him under false pretenses........it was his job to decide who is right or wrong not mine!
oh joy
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thanks again Coops.
On reading this through I do not actually find anything relating to insurance, perhaps I have missed something. I am sorry but my head is spinning and my stomach churning as I cannot do anything at the moment.
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Coops do you know where this piece of legislation came from...ie the full version .
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Coops , I do not have access to a fax, if anyone on the forum does and will do this on my behalf I will do a search for the fax no NOW
Thank you in advance/
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I had already thought of trying to contact our agent, but all I know is her first name and the village she lives in, nothing else.
If he is illegal in UK driving on Green insurance whilst working, what about all the cross boarder workers ? half of the south of france must have illegan cars right now with the prtuguese here for the fruit.
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OK here goes , I will not be thanked by my other half when you read this.
Mr O as some on the forum will be aware goes to UK a few times per year with our fully comp insured car, he goes for around a month to work, he is a HGV driver.
Yesterday he had had enough and decided to cut his stay short and was heading towards the ports (still in Greater Mancester) he was stopped , I believe on the motorway, I do not know why he was originaly stopped (perhaps the french plates?!) anyway the upshot is that when they looked at his insurance documents, in french obviously, they said they were not valid for UK, he asked for an interpretor so they could read the documents, but he had the Green slip that comes with the vignette for the window, somehow it came into the conversation that he had been working here and they said it automaticcally invalidated insurance as he was no longer a visitor! he had no UK address to give them so he was locked up for the night and will remain there untill tomorrow when he goes befoe the court, they have impounded the car and will not release it without UK insurance.
I have tried every number under the sun this morning, french ebassy, british embassy , foreigh office , insurance(but that is only for breakdowns today) I have even tried the Motor insurers bureau listed on my groupama policy, either that is busy or not open like all the others.......they could only help in case of a death(fair enough)
Someone please help.
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Thank you, I already did that, but I bet h`es out......being a sunday driver[:D]
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Can anyone get in touch with Sunday Driver for me please, urgent matter. Please ask him to look in his emails
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Thing are deffinatly going up, hee and in UK. But an example for France ; yesterday I shopped at Lidl, I bought a box of 16 mini icecream lollies which I buy on a regulat basis, they started out at 1.69 and went to 1.79 for many months. yesterday they were at 2.09 ! thats a 30 cent rise in a week.
Please help.......insurance quandry
in Driving in France
Posted
The OUTCAST is free..........no case to answer. He has been told he has to produce a copy of his travel document , which he didn`t have because for some reason Our computer chose not to download the info so he just wrote his confirmation number down. so I shall contact norfolkline to see if they will fax a duplicate through to the relevent department. And an english translation of his green card so I am off to see the chocolate fireguard at Groupama in a mo.
Big thankyou to all who supported me and my family through this , and a big Raspberry to the not so nice people, you each know which category you fall into!