ross.e

ok - all especially Craig - thank you very much   The main issue here seems to be our naivety, a complete lack of French language skills, tangled up with also having no idea about rots - wet or dry....but since my recent crash course (thanks again to all here)I am feeling rather stupid etc about the whole thing.   as some have pointed out here and in a number of internet sources there seems to be a rather heightened fear of dry rot that seems now to be more about selling chemicals than much else. we had the fear.   we do love the house - the forest on the doorstep...(perhaps a fungal source) : ) and the whole french thing....   so without wanting to seem too foolish and a time waster we have decided to complete the purchase.   "arghhhhh" - I hear you say - "what a tosser..." and rightly so I would reply. But without getting in to too much self loathing - I am glad you all were here to set me right and I thank the internet gods for providing resources of understanding and knowledge such as this forum - where although I was a newbie and completely unknown I was treated extremely well - welcomed and furnished with priceless knowledge.   So once again thank you   ross ps - I hope you don't mind if I call again - I am sure to encounter many things I do not understand in my French journey ! 

Ok Craig thanks again for the clarification... this is the latest from my notaire The seller's notaire..so passed on to transmitted me that you know him(it) the report of written conclusions of the diagnostician indicating that he had spotted(located) diverse sorts of parasites but that the building was not affected by a mérule. In conclusion, the condition precedent of absence of mérule does not work and does not allow you to go out of the compromise. If you persist in your intention not to settle the sale, the sellers can decide to continue you in execution of a writ of the sale or at least to ask you for 10 % of the price(prize) as penalty clause. Thank you to be willing to indicate to me if you decide to go buyer or if you persist in your refusal to settle the sale you have suggested early that we might offer a low price... at this point...um....I am feeling awfully naive.... how might we go about that... the compromis...states that we owe the original amount? I feel this will be my last question....OMG.. I hope so thanks again ross

Hi Craig and all I can find numerous references in French that seem to say Coniophore is dry rot.... "Le Coniophore est également un champignon de pourriture cubique. Le nom scientifique est Coniophora puteana." & Coniophora spp. Les Coniophores (Genre Coniophora) sont relativement courants dans les maisons, quoique moins fréquents que la Mérule (la majorité des observations de macromycètes). Ils produisent une pourriture cubique des boiseries. Coniophora puteana (Schumach.: Fr.) P. Karst. est l’espèce la plus fréquente, mais on rencontre également C. arida (Fr.: Fr.) P. Karst. et sa var. suffocata (Peck) Ginns ainsi que C. marmorata Desm. On les trouve parfois à l’état stérile, mais les sporophores sont assez courants dans l’Est de le France. Il semble que ces espèces aient besoin de plus d’humidité que la Mérule. On les trouve donc plus souvent dans les caves. Ils causent une pourriture cubique active et ils forment généralement des rhizomorphes bruns à noirâtres. Sur les hyphes les plus larges de ces derniers, l’examen microscopique montre parfois des boucles verticillées, qui sont relativement typiques. On trouvera des descriptions de ces espèces dans Hallenberg & Eriksson (1985) notamment. This last article comes from Problematique_champignons_xylophages.pdf it seems very thoroughly researched....with extensive bibliography.... what do you think? thanks ross

Hello Craig You are amazing. Thank you for going to the trouble to be so informative !! I notice that the form letter you suggests says the following - Enfin, je vous prie de trouver, ci-joint, le justificatif permettant de vous assurer que la condition ne s'est pas réalisée. In this case the seller's notaire has already disputed my claim that Donkioporia and Coniophore are covered by the diagnostic merule. She went back to the diagnostic company and they have sent a one page letter confirming that no merule is present only Donkioporia and Coniophore what proof do you think I would include in this situation that seems to be a semantic definition problem about the meaning of merule. ?? many thanks again ross

Conditions suspensives conventionelles Hi sorry - cant figure out how to make the french ' the clause reads as below many thanks Obtention par le Promettant d'un diagnostic Merule negatif. Les presentes sont conclues sous la condition suspensive de l'obtention, aux frais du Beneficiaire, d'un diagnostic merule realise par un professionnel quailfie et independant au sens de la reglementation actuelle ne revelant pas la presence de merule dans les biens objet des presentes, avant la date de realisation de la vente

Hello again Craig and other posters here. I seem not be getting anywhere with the Notaires. I would like to clarify something about the Compromise de Vente. We have what I presume is a standard form contract. We have paid a deposit. 1. I have heard that the seller can force you to buy? Is that correct? or is the worst case just loosing the deposit? 2. Chancer (in this forum) suggested doing nothing and waiting it out? Does this mean that the seller is stuck with us until we either a) get our deposit back, b) agree that they can keep the deposit, before they put it back on the market? thanks

Hi Craig and other posters here. Thanks for your input.   Yes I understand that you feel that if the house is extremely run down that we should expect some rot dry or otherwise.   That said we were advised to place the merule clause and from that point on decided that that would be the 'straw that broke the camels back' so to speak. When weighed in the balance - the amount of rot and its potential to be ever present after us try/working/paying hard to get rid of it - just seems too much. The building has other issues that we were willing to wear but a line has to be drawn somewhere. thanks   ross

It seems mérule is not always mérule.....   In our compromise de vente there is a clause concerning mérule...if found we get out of jail free. The situation now is that the diagnostic has found other species of dry rot namely - Donkioporia and Coniophore.   I can also find many examples on the internet that state the following or similar -   "Le Coniophore est également un champignon de pourriture cubique. Le nom scientifique est Coniophora puteana."  Is mérule a description of the mérule species only or is it used as a general term to cover - 'mérule et autres champignon lignivore' as is so often stated in .gouv.fr websites. Is there any precedent here....??  

Hi Chancer and all   It seems mérule is not always mérule.....   In our compromise de vente there is a clause concerning mérule...if found we get out of jail free. The situation now is that the diagnostic has found other species of dry rot namely - Donkioporia and Coniophore. I can also find many examples on the internet that state the following or similar - "Le Coniophore est également un champignon de pourriture cubique. Le nom scientifique est Coniophora puteana." Is mérule a description of the mérule species only or is it used as a general term to cover - 'mérule et autres champignon lignivore' as is so often stated in .gouv.fr websites. Is there any precedent here....?? 

Ok - thanks for the advice. Do you mean that while we have a signed compromise that they are unable to sell to anyone else? before they return our deposit? That makes interesting news. please say more. thanks ross

Hi Chancer thanks for your reply. And thanks to all others as well. We have only paid a small deposit but would of course like to get that money back. Our Notaire even agreed in an email to me that we were within our rights to not go through with the purchase - and now we have this'annex' to the orginal diagnostic - and the seller's Notaire saying that we will not get the deposit back. Its very curious and annoying.   No - we would not buy the property for less or at all now that this has come to light.   Stick to my guns - Yes - but how? - is your advice to get a Avocat and have them write a letter to the seller's Notaire? This could be expensive - if we do get our money back - will the expense of the legal fees to get it back be covered?   many thanks again   ross

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="Patf"]You'll see from this link that the diagnostic reports should have been attached to the Compromis de Vente.[/quote]We don't know that the routine diagnostic report wasn't and the fact that the OP's Notaire saw fit to advise a specific clause suspensive for dry rot mérule would seem to indicate that it was outside and above that and therefore not subject to that particular requirement. Perhaps the OP can clarify that point ? [/quote]   Hi there OP here   yes that is correct the dry rot diagnostic was extra to the others. I did receive the other diagnostics at he time of the compromise.   Thanks all for your input so far !

Hello All   Firstly tanks in advance for any and all help and advice. I am anewbie to French Property. I will try not to bore you with too many details and just stick to the real facts. Ok.... In May we saw a property that we liked. It is extremely run down. We decided to use a Notaire in Calais who speaks some English. She has been in discussion with the sellers Notaire on our behalf. Our Notaire suggested that we included a clause that would allow us to pull out of the deal if there was dry rot ‘mérule’ present in the structure. We arranged to sign the Compromise at the our Notaire’s office in Calais on June 25, 2015.  I had asked about the diagnostic and was told that it would be done after we had signed and paid the deposit. From that day on I sent numerous emails asking when I would receive the diagnostic for dry rot ‘mérule’. There was a delay in sending the cooling off letter as our Notaire wanted it to be translated into English. This was fine – it did however, take until September 3 for the translated cooling off letter to arrive. At that stage I had been assured by our Notaire that the conditional clause regarding the dry rot ‘mérule’ could be still enacted and thus we were happy to let the cooling off period lapse, expecting that we could pull out of the deal if and when the diagnostic showed dry rot ‘mérule’. Some days after the cooling off period had lapsed I again emailed our Notaire asking where the diagnostic was. I was then forwarded (by our Notaire) an email from the sellers Notaire saying that she (the sellers Notaire) was once again forwarding the diagnostic. It turns out that the diagnostic was actually completed at the beginning of July. I think somewhere along the way our Notaire had failed to recognise that they had been sent it……..aghhhh The diagnostic, once I had it, showed a fair amount of dry rot and I wrote to our Notaire saying we would not go ahead with the purchase. That was just over a week ago. Our Notaire (after reading through the diagnostic) agreed and said that we were within our rights to pull out of the deal. Today I have received an email from our Notaire. It is the forward of an email from the sellers Notaire. In it is attached an annex to the dry rot diagnostic (a one page letter from the diagnostic firm) that sates that there is no dry rot present. Dated October 9th 2015   The seller’s Notaire says – thus we are not able to have our deposit returned.   This is seems strange. There is no part of the dry rot conditional clause that states how much dry rot there needs to be before the clause can be enacted.   Also – of course I would not have let the cooling off period lapse – had I been privy to the diagnostic. I feel I am well within my rights to pull out of this deal. I spoke briefly to an English/French lawyer today and he told me that he thought that if we did not have the diagnostic (for whatever reason) prior to signing the compromise, then that signing was void. If this is a point of law – could someone post the a link to the relevant laws etc Any other comments/ help/ reflections/advice gratefully received. Many thanks and kind regards   ross