BobDee

We have a 6kw supply (Single phase), on the heures creuses tarrif which in effect means that the meter in the lane, about 100 yds from the house, has two displays from which the HP and HC rates can be read. From my limited knowledge of the HC system, I understand that were the meter to be adjacent to the main tableau, a control wire could be extended to a teleinterrupteur in the tableau to directly control socket outlets such that they are only live in HC time. Please correct me if this wrong. Given that the meter is well distanced from the tableau. is there a device that can detect the HC switch signal as generated by EDF, beyond the meter and used remotely by tableau switching equipment? A supplementary.. What is the nature of the HC switch signal? is it an audio tone, pulse to earth from the neutral or what...? Regs BobD

Ernie/Ron The link included a copy of my Email to impots just asking them what rate to use and their response. i.e. 1.3636. Who can argue with that? What more do you need?   Regs from someone whose papers have been posted and now trying to stay away from these forums. Still a great source of entertainment though.... BobD

Gs Think you are right, having spoken to the HMRC help line who say that the R85 does not apply to non UK residents. It looks as though I have to come down to earth and accept that every year I must claim tax in a proactive way, like asking for it, or does the HMRC system eventually work out that you have overpaid and eventually send you a refund? Sick and tired of tax matters, and having posted off my forms, I'll try and get on with life. BobD

David, I think not but Nationwide International will BobD Sorry Mods, this is not meant to be a Nationwide plug!  

Just off the telephone with Nat west and Nationwide. I have E savings with both. Natwest say if you want your interest paid gross you will have to close the account. Nationwide say no problem, just fill in their R85 form. Young lady there said vast numbers of their customers are overseas and get interest paid without tax. Nationwide win again! BobD

Sue, I think from SD's links this is employment related and virtually the same as my situation. So included in Pensions and not shown else where is correct. Other supporting evidence to this is that at least two posters have been advised by their French Acvcvontants that annuities generally go in with pensions and my quoted Email to the french impots english service stated that annuities go in the pension box. This advice was presented without a qualification rider. Any way thats what I have done. and the envelope has been resealed once again and will certainly get posted this afternoon. Cant stand any more revisions!....

I have fond hopes that having submitted an FD5, and not being in receipt of a government  pension taxed at source, my bank and building society can be persuaded to pay all interest gross. so no more UK tax! and thus no more claim forms! Am I in dream land? BobD

SD, The Tax FAQ's are a first rate guide to sorting out intial problems with the tax system. They are however read by many many people who regard them as the ultimate authority and to that end they surely need to be as accurate as possible. Your previously posted links provide a lot of clarification regarding annuities and IMHO are worthy of  inclusion. My reference to gray areas was prompted by words in those links such as "likely to be taxed" and "quite oblique guidance", all, to me,  indicators of "grayness". Whilst looking at revisions to the FAQ's, under Savings Interest and Dividends, the phrase " Put the gross figure in Column 5 under Royaume Uni, then transfer the total across to box TS on the form 2042.", has been queried before on this forum. It should surely say, "In column 1 enter Royaume Uni and in Column 5 enter the gross figure. Gross is correct in this context as  UK tax deductions are not allowable as per the countries table on page 3 of the 2047". My 2 cents.. BobD 

SD, Looks like yet another very grey area. In my case my annuity was purchased with the income from various pension schemes that I had contributed to over the years whilst self employed. and that to me, says it is employment related. So I have added it to my overall pensions figure. The modified FAQ's seem to add more confusion to the annuity issue. I think a complete re-write of the annuity section might be in order quoting the information you linked to in your last posting. BobD

David, as far I understand the situation, and there are certainly others on this forum with greater knowledge of these matter than yours truly, the act of submitting an FD5 does not in itself stop UK tax being deducted from interest bearing accounts. It is up to you to request that your bank/building society, pays your interest gross, i.e, no tax deducted. Various banks etc might well have their own forms for gross interest payments,  that you have to request. In most cases they will not act on this request without checking with HMRC, and HMRC will check that they have an FD5 duly stamped by the french impots in your name. Sounds highly circuitous, but thats how it seems to work. You should not have to submit an FD5 every year. BobD  

It IS officially 1.3636 See "think i've found a good link to help fill out the tax forms!" (http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/2/1231954/ShowPost.aspx#1231954) BobD

OFFICIAL RESPONSE Amazingly fast response to my Email to [email protected] in which I said: Your help please,   I am married and we are both over 65 years of age.   I have a small UK annuity, about €5000 per annum. Should I add the gross value to the Pensions figure in AS on the 2042 or should it be declared in the CW box?   Also can you give me the correct Euro/Pound exchange rate please for 2007.   Thank you REPLY The exchange rate for the fiscal year 2007 is : 1euro = 0,73335 pound 1 pound = 1,3636   euro You have to complete box 1 AS but not CW I  hope the above information will help you. Pierre Vergne inspecteur départemental des Impôts So Exchange rate is 1.3636 and annuities are added to pension figure in AS/BS. Jackie, if you and yours are both over retirement age, virtually no tax is payable on pensions, according to the impots calculator, so adding Annuities to the pensions figure is quite a saving for many.  

Many thanks both. Email re Annuity and,  for fun, confirmation of correct exchange rate, has been sent. Result will be posted here. BobD

Thats a pretty important point re annuity declaration. In my case it would make several hundred euros difference in tax payable. Someone must have the "official" answer. All the tax forms are sitting here ready to be posted tomoorow. But if I can save some money, the printer will soon be busy again! BobD

Remember the original point of this posting. FD5 is not the form to use for individual declarations. FD5 is a Company declaration form. The HMRC havnt  got around to givng the "FORM FRANCE INDIVIDUAL" an actual number. This is why tax office folk get more confused that usual when people keep talking about the FD5. BobD Having posted my words of wisdom.. I have just found a 2003 version of the above form and it is labeled FD5. The latest ones are devoid of any number and if you try and download a "FD5" from the HMRC website, you get the "Company" version. Its good to know our finances are in such capable hands.  

Sounds blindingly obvious to me that Ron is correct. How though, does the tax office know from the 2042/2047 submission what rate you are using? Or is the rate only going to emerge if you get audited? This being my first year I have annoted the 2047 with the rate I have used (1,4245), just to pre-empt the question.  BobD

Just to gently drag this back to where it all started, we are talking about a completely UK legal car that spends a proportion of its time in France and in the UK. This proportion is a variable that might be seven months in France and  five months in the UK or even the reverse. The original question was seeking advice on a suitable insurance company that would enable this transition to be a fully legal process. I believe it has been established that six months is the maximum that a car can be in France legally, (Probably 5 months and 29 days).  In practice, given that the car cannot le insured in two countries at the same time and given that at the start of  any year the owner might not know what the plans for the car might be, the solution is probably to spend five months in France, take a months holiday in Spain and then return to the UK. Now that should be good for another twenty postings. BobD  

Thanks Ron for the clarification. Have to say that the way the French Tax system treats savings interest has come as a bit of a shock. Working through the calculator the following results seem appropriate, Situation:  Married couple, both above normal retiremant age (65) 1) Having a joint pension  of €20,000  Pay €136 Tax  and no Social Charge. 2) Having a joint pension of €20,000 and an annuity of €5000 Pay €482 Tax plus €220 Social Charge 3) Having a joint pension of €20,000 and an Annuity of €5000 and bank savings interest of €10,000 pay €1968 Tax plus  €1320 Social Charge. Moral is, it seems, dont rely on that savings nest egg as an income source if you want to keep your tax bill low. BobD

So the result from the calculator shows the  tax payable (A) plus the Social Charges (B) payable, the sum of which (A+B)  is your liability? Viz:  Compte tenu des éléments que vous avez saisis, le montant de votre impôt net à payer s'élève à  A (auquel il faudra ajouter  B de contributions sociales supplémentaires) If this is so, the overall tax payable amount seems quite a bit more than the UK figure.  BobD 

SD , Many thanks for that, Just a supplementary, does this mean that on savings account and annuity income, one can expect the 14% rate plus an additional 16% rate to be levied? BobD  

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I am confused how the Social Charges are applied. Have just completed the first tax return and on entering the figures into the Impots tax calulator, (http://www3.finances.gouv.fr/calcul_impot/2008 ), it seems that a major percentage is also added to the total bill for Social Charges. Am I right in saying that if you are both over retirement age and you receive health care via a 121 declaration that you do not pay social charges on top of your tax bill or do you still have to pay charges based on an annuity income. The Tax FAQ's seem to say that OAP and company pensions are exempt from Social charges but are other types of income also exempt? BobD

Ernie, The only reason for the change to the original was the advice on the thread to date re Saga. Overall the position does not seem be too accurately described in law. In practice there will be tens of thousands of sales reps etc, spending their working lives driving around Europe. They will frequently be stopped by the police and the police will check the documention based on the cars national registration. A UK car will be checked for UK tax, MOT and UK insurance. If all three are there, everything fine Sir, off you go. In practice, unless you are in an accident, you are less likely to be pulled in at a random stop with overseas plates than with French plates. Just imagine how much info the local Gendarme has on Polish driving documentation. Just one more point, then I think I'll get the scotch bottle at the ready, No Road Tax is somewhat of a myth. When registering my old Mercedes, with a CV of 20, I had to pay around 400€, similarly when buying a new gas guzzler, the initial tax is equivalent to a good few years of annual road tax. BobD 

I feel as if I am playing devils advocate here, having had my " ancient" cars French plated for 18 months now, but as originally stated, my friends UK plated car is UK taxed, UK MOT'd and will have UK insurance, perhaps SAGA. If it shuttles back and forth from France to the UK over a twelve month period, who is to say that it is breaking the law? We have all had experinces of not having passports even looked at at UK France border crossings, and no doubt number plates are photographed both sides, but I seriously doubt that a data base exists that uses all this info and flags the fact that car has spent six months and one day in any particular country. The six month "must be registered" period is presumably a continuous period of six months. When we first arrved in France, our UK plated cars were insured by AXA on the understanding that they were French registered in the next six months,  which of  course they were.    As stated previously if the car is UK legal and the insurance company are fully aware of the cars usage and will therefor pay up in the event of an accident, where is the problem? There have to be many people who for professional reasons spend varying times out of France. All the aforementioned laws are designed to catch the person is drives on UK plates whilst living permanently in France. This is not the case here. If in one year, a person spends seven months in the UK and five in France and the next year five in the UK and seven in France, are you expected to switch insurers every year, assuming of course you know in advance where you will be in the next twelve months? BobD (Wish I hadn't started this!)

Hi Bob Dont really want to start this topic all over again, but I think that if its fully UK taxed and MOT'd and the insurance company know all the facts, then it is legal. bobD 

Asking this for a friend currently in the UK. She has a UK registered car taxed and MOT'd, owns a property in France and one in UK. She aims to spend about 5 months a year in UK and seven in France. Currently has french insurance but that only allows 30 days in UK. Anyone have any experience of a company UK or French that allows several months out of the country?