Kiddies fighting

[Pads]

Has any one seen the advert for the programme (also on the news) about small children fighting(organised fighting by grownups ) as young as the age of five.

I have no problem with children learning martial arts as a sport if that is what they want to do. but from the adverts I have seen for this programme . it appears to be run by manic parents who seem to be getting a kick out of this for there own ends !!!! they come across as very sick people , as you see one young girl crying as she dosnt want to do it and is pushed back in. This girl is made up with make up and hair spray like those poor children in ball room dancing , so she looks good for the camera's filmed by these sick parents.. Are these people normal ? 

Is this the next good night out in the suburbs .... lets go see some little kids kick the shit out of each other for fun ??

[Hoddy]

I was quite shocked that advert too, Pads.

I imagine the television company's complaint line will be blocked that night.

Hoddy

[Limousin Lass]

Yes, I also saw the trailer for this programme,  the parents reminded of the baying louts seen on programmes about dog fighting.

Where are Social Services when they are needed????

[Gluestick]

I was once asked by a chum, years ago to support his son's football club match.

Baying parents?

These poor little lads were doing their best, whilst red-faced beer-gutted fathers ran up and down the side of the pitch, screaming and shouting at their kids to spur them on.

It was, for a rugby man, a prime example of a dysfunctional society and increased my already existant hatred of and for football.

Mindless morons.

I did see the trailer: now martial arts used to be all about inner self-discipline, not kicking the $h1t out of another child.

How very sad for the children.

 

[Hoddy]

Gluestick you've hit on one of the reasons for the loss of many after school sports club. Quite a few of my former colleagues gave up running these because after the match they would be cornered by aggressive parents pointing out where they had gone wrong. There was no recognition that they were doing it in their own time and out of a wish to encourage the best of sporting standards among our pupils.

Not surprisingly they found it was altogether more comfortable to just go home after work.

Hoddy

[Will]

It's just an example of the pushy parents thing.

Though there was a controversy a few weeks ago which ended up with a video of small kids fighting being taken off YouTube, and I believe the local police and social services got involved. But I suspect in that case the motives were a little more suspect than in the 'proper' film. See here

 

[Chancer]

Crawley Sussex - My birthtown!

Born in a council house, lived in various council and housing association flats until I massively overstretched myself  to buy a property in a neighbouring, and still very nice village. I have never looked back since.

My two sisters still live in siege conditions in council houses in the two worst estates in Crawley. I have seen the floor of the Asda supermarket in the town center littered with ready cooked chicken carcasses, half eaten French sticks and empty extra strength lager cans where some people have a  free "picnic" whilst walking around the store.

It is always a relief to return to France.

[Patf]

I agree this is a horrible way to exploit children.

Let's hope it puts some of them off violence altogether. Like a friend of mine who had 3 daughters who were always squabbling and scrapping. One day she made them go out into the garden and fight eachother until they cried with exhaustion. They kept the peace for a long time after that.

[Will]

[quote user="J.R"]

Crawley Sussex - My birthtown!

Born in a council house, lived in various council and housing association flats until I massively overstretched myself  to buy a property in a neighbouring, and still very nice village. I have never looked back since.

My two sisters still live in siege conditions in council houses in the two worst estates in Crawley. I have seen the floor of the Asda supermarket in the town center littered with ready cooked chicken carcasses, half eaten French sticks and empty extra strength lager cans where some people have a  free "picnic" whilst walking around the store.

It is always a relief to return to France.

[/quote]

JR, thanks for saying that. When we defend England we're often told that, where we live, we are sheltered from what it is really like (rubbish, because I have to visit all sorts of unsavoury places all over Britain - and Europe - for work). But Crawley is only a few miles up the road, which is why I remembered that news story.

What you describe sounds just like Netto and Super U in a place near us in France (said jokingly but there are plenty of the French chav equivalent there).

But seriously, remembering the pressure I came under as a child to take part in boxing (couldn't imagine anything I wanted to do less), and how people say France is like Britain was 40 years ago, I could well imagine something like that happening in France. I've never heard of it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. 

(Edit - sorry, wouldn't let me quote the full user name)

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Hoddy"]Gluestick you've hit on one of the reasons for the loss of many after school sports club. Quite a few of my former colleagues gave up running these because after the match they would be cornered by aggressive parents pointing out where they had gone wrong. There was no recognition that they were doing it in their own time and out of a wish to encourage the best of sporting standards among our pupils. Not surprisingly they found it was altogether more comfortable to just go home after work. Hoddy[/quote]

I was very fortunate, Hoddy: I attended a grammer school in the early 50s which was apart from being one of the top in the County, was very much sports oriented. Boasted some famous amateur athletes, top class rugby union players and just about everything else, but was also excellent in academic results and good university places.

I was shell-shocked and horrified when I was asked to become a school governor (County Council Co-Opted) back in the early 90s and the time of LMS.

I fought hard against selling off the playing fields. We did turn the school around (it was a huge problem) and it is now GMS and very successful and parents vie for  their kids to go there.

Personally, I believe sports are part and parcel of a balanced curriculum: healthy body - healthy mind: sadly also, sports became "Elitist" 'cos everyone can't win!

Pathetic!

Now of course, just circa 17 years later we, see the result in childhood obesity.

I know it is very difficult to refrain, as a parent, when your child shows far above average skill at a sport: my son was physically, top golf pro material. Sadly, he lacked the desired focus. In odd moments he still blames me for "Not supporting my golf", which is factually wrong, however, whilst I helped him (the reason I'm still working and so poor!), and pushed him a little, I determined it was up to him to screw himself down and make the effort.

However I was determined not to be like say Buster Mottram's parents: or the Lloyd boys, Dad. Knew the family they were local and the father a fanatic and determined one of his lads would be Wimbledon champ.

Nice guys both David and John: they used to be customers of my garage biz when they lived locally.

 

[NormanH]

I think this is the article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=560851&in_page_id=1770&ito=1490

[Benjamin]

Junior cage fighting next, starting with the benjamins?

[Gluestick]

[quote user="NormanH"]I think this is the article
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=560851&in_page_id=1770&ito=1490
[/quote]

The worrying aspect, for me, is the number of reader responses supporting this. What a festering cess pit the UK is so rapidly becoming.

Using "Self-Defence" is a typical pile of steaming BS: anyone with knowledge of martial arts  knows that such aggression has no part in real martial art.

And that simply being good at kicking and punching is no real defence against a determined knife attack.

This all proves for me that my previous stance for kids being forcibly removed from many "parents" (which resulted in my being labelled a snob and classist) is correct: since many biologically "Adult" humans are no more suited to parenthood than they are owning dogs.

Has anyone else noticed that in recent years, kids have become yet another trophy possession to many "Adults"?

Grumph!!! [:@]

After taking away the kids, I'd subject these scum to mandatory sterilisation!

 

[Cat]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

After taking away the kids, I'd subject these scum to mandatory sterilisation!

 

[/quote]

Have a care Gluey, wasn't there a German chappie with similar ideas a while back? [:-))]

[just john]

Quite so, Cat, Voltaire, said I believe, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

and to be pedantic; the most evil man in the world was born on 20th April, 1889, in a small town called Braunau am Inn in Austria.

[Gluestick]

I'm not suggesting anything along the line of Eugenics, Cathy: however, to me having been involved in various aspects of social intervention and also of children's betterment, I fear that the UK's current slavish determination to promote and secure human rights has exacerbated abuse of children, amongst a number of other social ills.

I defy anyone to defend these parent's actions, in exposing young children to possible lifetime injuries and mental trauma for the parent's volition.

Kids of this age need love, care, teaching by example and the opportunity to grow in a safe and loving environment.

People who cannot or will not provide such do not possess the right to have or foster children.

For me, having children is a privilege: and not an absolute right of passage.

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

[quote user="NormanH"]I think this is the article
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=560851&in_page_id=1770&ito=1490
[/quote]

.

Has anyone else noticed that in recent years, kids have become yet another trophy possession to many "Adults"?

[/quote]

Yes and I could not have put it better.

For Will, we were talking about the social problems in Crawley but regarding the above have you seen the level of teenage vandalism, violence and drug taking in Southwater not far from you?

That place couldnt be farther from a deprived council area and the parents of the teenagers seem to be more obsessed with their newer trophiesthan parental responsibilities  now that their kids are getting older.

[Will]

Gluestick, I don't think abuse has been exacerbated, it's just that we hear a lot more about it now. I know that 40 years ago sexual abuse was widespread, and I would hazars a guess that there was rather more of it than at present, there just wasn't the recognition of paedophiles back then. And physical abuse was even more common in schools and homes - one could almost say that the 'better' the school, the more abuse. I'm talking about England, but I don't think things are much different in other places.

JR, I know Southwater very well, in fact I remember it in the 1960s and before when it consisted mainly of its brickworks and the large - somewhat 'rough' - council estate that housed the workers. I've lived there on two occasions (not now) since it took on its present form. I mention it because it is a good example of a place that has grown up rapidly as just housing - little else (at least up to very recently). I believe that is the underlying problem in many places, no 'community'. Yes, it has a village hall and a 'country park' (i.e. the brickworks site) and there have been attempts to give the kids things to do - but kids of course don't want to be told how to spend their spare time. It's not surprising that places like that, which are basically just breeding grounds, little else, have problems. And the parents who are attracted to places like that do definitely regard it as somebody else's responsibility (the schools?) to tell their offspring how to live.

Arguably, France has more of a community spirit in its villages, but there are still problems of drugs, alcoholism, vandalism and petty crime - in that case high unemployment and lack of prospects seem to be the dispiriting factors.

Sorry, drifting away from the topic...

[just john]

Whilst I feel the same despair of most of the comments, if not some of the detail, I feel the reality is that the whole series of similar incidents are a barometer of the current condition of society and how the responsible institutions have performed during the last generation to produce these current products. Of course I absolve myself of all blame as I'm sure do many others, but something is responsible, the facts speak clearly, somebody did step off the path and tread on the butterfly; and that is the failure of this nation to perform to produce what many would rather see. These are the things that need to addressed rather than castrating a few pathetic dysfunctional rejects.

[Bluebells]

Well a memory springs to mind of younger days when my weight training partner brought up the subject of his son, a skinny 9 year old lad with a lisp and problems of remorseless bullying at school.   He had become totally withdrawn and firghtened of his own shadow and scared sh--less of going to school.  My pal asked me too train the lad for a while including some junior boxing stuff, well six months into this, the young man had become a different person in my and his families eyes and proud as punch we all were when his dad got a call from school asking him to attend as his lad had knocked out the school bully and he was being asked to explain himself.   Still know the lad and his family to this day and all are well adjusted NORMAL human beings.   Not to everyone's taste I guess but for him a release from the constant difficulty he faced in those times.

[Hoddy]

I suspect that some of the people commenting here haven't actually seen the trailer for this programme; it was extremely unpleasant.

Most of us who've spent a lifetime in teaching are familiar with boxing and martial arts training and even though we may not like it, acknowledge that it's done in a very disciplined way. What was shown on the trailer bore little resemblance to what I know of martial arts.

Hoddy

[Limousin Lass]

Perhaps reading this link will give some people a taste of what to expect - sickening.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/2004_baby_fight_club.shtml

I know it is the NOTW, known for its sensationalising but judging from the trailer I saw it seems a fairly true reflection.

 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Hoddy"]I suspect that some of the people commenting here haven't actually seen the trailer for this programme; it was extremely unpleasant. Most of us who've spent a lifetime in teaching are familiar with boxing and martial arts training and even though we may not like it, acknowledge that it's done in a very disciplined way. What was shown on the trailer bore little resemblance to what I know of martial arts. Hoddy[/quote]

Quite agree, Hoddy.

Some years ago, an acquaintance (through motorsport) turned out to be a quite senior Met officer and one of the highest UK examiners of the then quite rare martial art, popularly known as King Fu (more correctly, as he informed me, Wushu).

Over coffee one day, he recounted how two nights before, he was examining at a local centre for belt upgrades and how one young lad was on the mat and fighting for his new belt against a much more experienced chap. The young guy missed a block and was accidently kicked hard between the legs!

Now the chaps herein will empathise: the lad's instant and instinctive reaction was to cover his mouth and run for the loo to throw up. As he was about to leave the mat, the examiner shouted to remind him of something important: the lad thought for a tick and promptly bowed to his opponent and the examiner and then left the mat.

He received his new belt.

It was explained to me that since any form of martial art is about self-discipline and mind over matter, by managing to conquer such a powerful automatic physiological reaction and observe discipline and protocol, the young man well deserved the belt.

A world of difference to thuggish mentally challenged parents forcing 5 year old girls into a ring to fight for the parent's ego.

I stick to what I said earlier: sterilise 'em!

They are scum and totally unfitted to live in any decent society.

 

[Pads]

The programme we are talking about is on tomorrow Thursday at 9pm on channel 4

See what you think ?

[Iceni]

[quote user="Puzzled"]

I read a piece about this in Daily Mail yesterday [:$] . One of the comments was along the lines that it is filling the void left by the banning of dog fighting , let's hope that this actvity is stamped out too.

[/quote]

Don't agree, Puzzled. Now that we don't send them up chimneys I cannot think of a better use for children of the lower classes - there are plenty of them.

John [;-)]