Jump to content
Complete France Forum

The words of Obama


MrCanary

Recommended Posts

It is so sad that the words of President Obama are now causing many people in the UK to feel anti-American. He really needs to choose his words more carefully (as does the chief exec of BP). The way Obama is speaking, it sounds like he is blaming the whole of Great Britain and not just a single company.

And does he think that anybody at BP or anywhere else in the world actually wanted this disaster to happen?

And whilst BP are taking the blame and paying out the likes of $1000 a day compensation to fishermen who normally take a month to earn that kind of money, it is very important to remember that the oil leak was caused by American men working for an American company on an American owned rig. BP’s big mistake was employing these people to work for them!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When did he say anything that could be anti-British in general, do you have any source for that apart from the Daily Mail and Telegraph?

I saw that Cameron was also criticised for not supporting BP more fully (in the 'Tory' press of all places) and 'siding' with Obama, how could he not but criticise BP for being so tardy and 'support' Obama by not supporting BP - another twisted British media concept.

From what I've seen and read, Obama's having a go at a British named and based multi-national company which is world-wide in it's operation, not 'UK plc' and the Brit that runs the company who seems incapable of being discrete or diplomatic and surely has been a PR disaster for BP.  Interesting that the Chairman, not the Chief Exec, has been invited to the White House next Wednesday.  And remember that Obama has already lambasted the government structures that lead to the contract being drawn up with BP for the deep sea drilling, he even called the relationship 'corrupt'.

Whether the company that was running the oil rig was American or not, a Brit company contracted them and obviously has the legal responsibility for what happened which is why they're there trying - ineffectively tho for many understandable technical reasons - to sort it out.  If what has been said this morning is true, BP have been economical with the truth about the amount of oil that has been leaking and from what a family member of one of those killed on the rig has said, they were cutting financial/operating corners there all the time.  It has to be seen yet whether the financial/operating cuts were the result of pressure from BP.

From what I can see, much of the anti-Brit sentiment seems to be in the minds of the UK press/media who seem to be whipping up yet another 'crisis' when there isn't one there at all on the back of some poor poll ratings for Obama on this issue, looking for any sort of link to divert people away from laying the blame for this where it lays, in poor contractual obligations whilst the contracts were being drawn up because it was beleived this could never happen so it wasn't included in the contract - like Chernobyl and Three Mile Island couldn't happen! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, the horrendous environmental disaster apart, what this event demonstrates is the large inherent danger which exists in out-sourcing.

It is always made to be attractive from a cost-profit perspective: however subbing out potentially hazardous operations means the principle loses complete control of quality, safety and risk management.

Yet not the prime liability.

As as happened in this case.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Mel"]... it is very important to remember that the oil leak was caused by American men working for an American company on an American owned rig. BP’s big mistake was employing these people to work for them![/quote]

Really? That's interesting. Transocean's head office (according to the Wikipedia entry I looked at) is in Switzerland and the rig (an ocean-going vessel) is flagged in the Marshall Islands. Something else for Obama to rant about?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clarkkent - that is interesting...

And perhaps I might lift a quote from another thread on here...

This is from 'nomoss' - "It seems to be forgotten (or maybe not even known in the case of this Forum) that the well was being drilled under contract to BP by a US company under US regulation with US equipment, cementing done by a US contractor (Halliburton, not unconnected with Dick Cheyney).

But I don't think the boy from Michigan is about to mess with the good ol' boys from Texas..."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Gluestick"]

For me, the horrendous environmental disaster apart, what this event demonstrates is the large inherent danger which exists in out-sourcing.

It is always made to be attractive from a cost-profit perspective: however subbing out potentially hazardous operations means the principle loses complete control of quality, safety and risk management.

Yet not the prime liability.

As as happened in this case.

 

[/quote]

And there's me thinking it was all to do with letting specialists do specialised jobs. Jack of all trades, master of none? Cost is not a deciding factor.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony F...

I based my post on an interview I watched on BBC TV news this morning with the chap referred to in this article...

http://www.insurancedaily.co.uk/2010/06/11/rsa-chairman-sets-president-obama-straight-over-bp-oil-spill/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="NickP"]Also I believe I heard that BP is 39% American owned? Is that correct,  anyone know any different?[/quote]

I'd be surprised if it not more than that. BP has acquired Amoco, Occidental, Castrol, etc over the years, they would bring substantial numbers of US shareholders into the company. We are nominally a German company, most people know the name and think German, but we are 30% Brit owned,and 40odd% US owned. German shareholders are less than 10%. Just think of all those Germans beavoring away to make the Brits and Yanks richer[:D]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="velcorin"]

And there's me thinking it was all to do with letting specialists do specialised jobs. Jack of all trades, master of none? Cost is not a deciding factor.

No?[/quote]

 

You ought to examine Jarvis for example: and the Potter's Bar Rail crash........

And the UK government outsourcing contracts to Capita.

And the core reason why Britain's roads are in such a dire state: when such as BT sub out (Sorry "Outsource") digging up and repairing roads and footpaths which finish up going through a daisy chain of contractors until the jobs reach a gang of navies who even rent the tools and truck.

BP is, ostensibly one of the largest global majors and exploration companies: and they have the in-house technology.

This latest disaster is not their first fiasco: and the various sub-contractors involved have been deeply criticised for their cavalier attitude to safety.

Not about cost?

Explain this then please:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7137865.ece

Huh!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The numerous gaffes of the very British CEO doesn't help. The worst comment being I believe is he "does not see those cleaning up as human". That was early on and it does appear he has tried to do some quick back tracking lately. It is sickening to see and watch all the wildlife die and covered with thick oil. The images of the pelicans and seagulls being weighted down and not being able to get up is horrendous, the complete devastation of wildlife reserves, not to mention the loss of 11 human lives!

People are angry and I agree with Obama and Cameron, why should people get dividends! As in Obama's words BP are nickel and diming those affected but want to give dividends and bonus's. Personally I too would like to see the CEO sacked but unfortunately no doubt another British person would take his place. People want to blame someone for this disgusting mess, (just watch the live feeds of the oil that continues to gush out into the sea) and who better than the man in charge that says he just wants his life back! [:@]

Sadly it is British Petroleum, if it was Coca Cola or McDonald's both of which certainly aren't owned outright by America but it would be interesting to see what comments were made if this sort of thing was caused by one of them off of a British shore. I cannot see where Obama's comments are anti- British. [8-)] I think he has received a lot of criticism for being too laid back about the situation and is trying his best to show some passion and in my opinion, loads more passion should be shown along with some very quick solutions. [:(]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="WJT"]

The numerous gaffes of the very British CEO doesn't help. The worst comment being I believe is he "does not see those cleaning up as human". That was early on and it does appear he has tried to do some quick back tracking lately. It is sickening to see and watch all the wildlife die and covered with thick oil. The images of the pelicans and seagulls being weighted down and not being able to get up is horrendous, the complete devastation of wildlife reserves, not to mention the loss of 11 human lives!

People are angry and I agree with Obama and Cameron, why should people get dividends! As in Obama's words BP are nickel and diming those affected but want to give dividends and bonus's. Personally I too would like to see the CEO sacked but unfortunately no doubt another British person would take his place. People want to blame someone for this disgusting mess, (just watch the live feeds of the oil that continues to gush out into the sea) and who better than the man in charge that says he just wants his life back! [:@]

Sadly it is British Petroleum, if it was Coca Cola or McDonald's both of which certainly aren't owned outright by America but it would be interesting to see what comments were made if this sort of thing was caused by one of them off of a British shore. I cannot see where Obama's comments are anti- British. [8-)] I think he has received a lot of criticism for being too laid back about the situation and is trying his best to show some passion and in my opinion, loads more passion should be shown along with some very quick solutions. [:(]

[/quote]

I dont really see how BP can be accused of ''nickel and diming those affected'' (whatever the phrase means) if, as reported, the affected fishermen etc are receiving large amounts of compensation considerably in excess of lost earnings, and, receiving them inside 48hrs of claiming (no source confirmation of that).

Obama has, IMHO, used language that does seem to be innappropriate, unhelpful and not in the tone expected of a (supposed) World statesman. It no doubt appeals to certain sections of the USA population though.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the oil spill is a catastrophy, BP seem to acknowledge that and have done since the explosion that killed 11 crewmen. They also seem to have immediately agreed to fully fund the consequences. Why then is Obama so full of such rhetoric?

Irrespective of who made what mistakes, when and why, the first action is to fix the problem, the blame game can follow.

The basic fact is that such an accident has never, ever, been experienced by any oil company anywhere in the World, hence the technical challenges are immense and cannot be solved in an instant, no matter who is the CEO etc.

The mighty USA does not have the specialist technical knowledge and ability to fix the problem and yet the impression given by Obama is that BP are 'dragging their heels' in fixing the leak. The fact is that BP dont want the leak, the USA dont want the leak, no-one wants the leak and there is no way it was caused deliberatly.

Obama is IMHO not behaving in a statesman like manner and surely even he can see that driving BP to the wall is counterproductive in the long run, unless of course he has another agenda, but I dont do conspiracy theories.

It should also be noted that oil spill damage, whilst horrendous at the time, is not a massively long term issue. Check out the recovery of the Arabian Gulf following the massive damage in the Gulf war.

 

ps. I did read a report that effectively said the wildlife damage was seriously 'over-egged' but I cannot remember where I read it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really know nothing of oil spills but personally just viewing the horrible scenes in the wildlife reserves it does not look over egged to me.[blink][:(] I unfortunately lost my confidence in Obama before this incident. I agree about the language particularly the kicking ass comment not being very statesman! I think he is trying too hard from appearing apathetic to trying to come across passionate and is failing.

You are right about the US government not having the technical ability to clear up the mess. It is sad, but it appears that the oil companies are the only ones with the technology to clear up this nightmare not governments. I would normally be the last one to look for government intervention but I hope after this disaster the government regulates the hell out of oil companies. If the government needs to protect against future failings of private oil companies perhaps it is time to take them over! [:@]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadly it appears that after the Cost Cutting (And Outsourcing) leadership of Cedric Browne, one of the core problems is that BP no longer enjoy the clean up expertise themselves.

And have admitted this.

Which causes one to wonder, critically, why no risk management proceedures were in place, specifically, tabling lists of "known good" contractors, which could, at short notice, pick up the slack?

BP have exploited their drilling leases - and the public - during the boom years of high crude and product prices: let's hope they have sufficient reserve assets put aside for the rainy day: which has now arrived.

'Cos you can bet for sure, their environmental risk indemnity caps out at far less than the total cost of this might reach.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="WJT"]

I really know nothing of oil spills but personally just viewing the horrible scenes in the wildlife reserves it does not look over egged to me.[blink][:(][/quote]

Below is something I found on another forum, it makes interesting reading in the context of ''horrible scenes in the wildlife reserves''

Some of you may be interetsed in this - an email passed to me from a friend here (Some of you may remember I am in the oil business in Houston)- this is from an eye-witness - interesting

"Hello All, I have received several emails from friends and family asking about the oil spill. I had managed to avoid getting involved until last hitch. i came home last night from a 10 day hitch flying for BP from their base at Houma, La. They have 56 aircraft working the oil spill. I worked the Venice, La and the Grand Isle area where the president likes to visit. The news people have blown everything out of proportion and lots of untruths. The report that no one was cleaning up Grand Isle beach for one, Yesterday there was 200-300 men on the beach cleaning up what little oil was there.

I have been flying the Coast Guard around checking the bird sanctuaries. They are protected by booms that prevent oil getting on the small islands in the area. The famous pelican that was on all they news cvhannells was on Queen Bess Island. it is the size of about two city blocks and had one spot of oil about 10 feet long. The stupid pelican decided to land in this spot. There are more there more than 10,000 birds nesting on this island and he is the only one with oil. Some area to the east are worse but not as bad as made out. The oil for the most part is still offshore. it will come onshore some time but BP is fighting with more than 300 boats cleaning and putting out booms. There are probably 50 million birds in southern Louisiana and 53 comfirmed dead, Not the thousands as reported.

I Know it will get worse but it irritates me at the news medias slanting of the news.

I noticed that when Obama came to town, he waved his arms but nothing improved. I guess he lost his majic touch.

I just wanted to pass along an eyewitness report., I dont know where I will be next hitch, but we are short senior Captains so probably back to the spill. If so I will update my report later"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe the media has exploited the situation but it is still pumping oil into the sea, I forgot how many days to date. I don't understand how this isn't and won't be a major problem. Perhaps they are keeping some of it at bay but surely with this amount of oil , it is absolutely catastrophic for marine, bird and human life.  I saw on the news the other day where the oil has arrived on public beaches in Florida.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="WJT"]

I really know nothing of oil spills but personally just viewing the horrible scenes in the wildlife reserves it does not look over egged to me.[blink][:(][/quote]

Below is something I found on another forum, it makes interesting reading in the context of ''horrible scenes in the wildlife reserves''

Some of you may be interetsed in this - an email passed to me from a friend here (Some of you may remember I am in the oil business in Houston)- this is from an eye-witness - interesting

"Hello All, I have received several emails from friends and family asking about the oil spill. I had managed to avoid getting involved until last hitch. i came home last night from a 10 day hitch flying for BP from their base at Houma, La. They have 56 aircraft working the oil spill. I worked the Venice, La and the Grand Isle area where the president likes to visit. The news people have blown everything out of proportion and lots of untruths. The report that no one was cleaning up Grand Isle beach for one, Yesterday there was 200-300 men on the beach cleaning up what little oil was there.

I have been flying the Coast Guard around checking the bird sanctuaries. They are protected by booms that prevent oil getting on the small islands in the area. The famous pelican that was on all they news cvhannells was on Queen Bess Island. it is the size of about two city blocks and had one spot of oil about 10 feet long. The stupid pelican decided to land in this spot. There are more there more than 10,000 birds nesting on this island and he is the only one with oil. Some area to the east are worse but not as bad as made out. The oil for the most part is still offshore. it will come onshore some time but BP is fighting with more than 300 boats cleaning and putting out booms. There are probably 50 million birds in southern Louisiana and 53 comfirmed dead, Not the thousands as reported.

I Know it will get worse but it irritates me at the news medias slanting of the news.

I noticed that when Obama came to town, he waved his arms but nothing improved. I guess he lost his majic touch.

I just wanted to pass along an eyewitness report., I dont know where I will be next hitch, but we are short senior Captains so probably back to the spill. If so I will update my report later"

[/quote]

WOW I AM CONVINCED.[:)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunucu Beach

There are already so many threads about the oil spill that I didn't know where to post this and it doesn't deserve its own thread, so I went "eeny, meeny, miny, mo"......

This is purely FYI and you don't have to accept it as valid. I received an email today from my cousin whose husband is a helicopter pilot. They received this message in an email from a helicopter pilot friend of theirs. According to their friend, from what he sees, the magnitude of the damage by the oil spill is hyped and exaggerated by the media. FWIW here is what their pilot friend wrote:

"Hello All,

I have received several emails from friends and family asking about the oil spill. I had managed to avoid getting involved until last hitch. i came home last night from a 10 day hitch flying for BP from their base at Houma, La. They have 56 aircraft working the oil spill. I worked the Venice, La and the Grand Isle area where the president likes to visit. The news people have blown everything out of proportion and lots of untruths. The report that no one was cleaning up Grand Isle beach for one, Yesterday there was 200-300 men on the beach cleaning up what little oil was there.

I have been flying the Coast Guard around checking the bird sanctuaries. They are protected by booms that prevent oil getting on the small islands in the area. The famous pelican that was on all they news tv channels was on Queen Bess Island. it is the size of about two city blocks and had one spot of oil about 10 feet long. The stupid pelican decided to land in this spot. There are more there more than 10,000 birds nesting on this island and he is the only one with oil. Some area to the east are worse but not as bad as made out. The oil for the most part is still offshore. it will come onshore some time but BP is fighting with more than 300 boats cleaning and putting out booms. There are probably 50 million birds in southern Louisiana and 53 comfirmed dead, Not the thousands as reported.

I Know it will get worse but it irritates me at the news medias slanting of the news.

I noticed that when Obama came to town, he waved his arms but nothing improved. I guess he lost his majic touch.

I just wanted to pass along an eyewitness report., I dont know where I will be next hitch, but we are short senior Captains so probably back to the spill. If so I will update my report later"


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/999705-miles-miles-containment-boom-sitting-warehouse-2.html#ixzz0qYaGQDgO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...And has anyone seen the interview on tele (we did) with a local fisherman who was more than happy with the situation - he is being paid 1000 dollars a day because he cannot fish - he says - as compensation, when he said he normally earns 1200 dollars a week!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Chris"]...And has anyone seen the interview on tele (we did) with a local fisherman who was more than happy with the situation - he is being paid 1000 dollars a day because he cannot fish - he says - as compensation, when he said he normally earns 1200 dollars a week!![/quote]

Interesting! Do you have a link?

A double whammy! In addition to dubious engineering proficiency; the bean-counters of the BRITISH petrol coy would seem to be incapable of administering a compensation payment system for some PERHAPS NOT SO SIMPLE cajun shrimp fishers.[:D]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="WJT"]  Obama 's language particularly the kicking ass comment not being very statesman!  [/quote]

[quote user="Gluestick"] http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/markets/article-23842843-beware-of-lord-browne-the-outsourcer.do  [/quote]

Well just maybe the outsourcer has an upside too, perhaps its why BP's able to pay such a good dividend to so many pension pots.

Interestingly today pundits state ''current estimates are that the company remains in a strong financial situation and well able to maintain the level of its traditionally high dividend payments. However, if the company decides to postpone the next dividend as a political rather than financial gesture, there would be a marked impact on institutions, individuals and funds which hold BP as an income rather than capital growth play.  In the meantime market consensus is that the share price fall has been overdone and the shares remain a buy.

I'm sure BP, its associates, insurers et al, in whatever form will remain strong contenders in the US market and will ultimately recoup it's losses, perhaps at the loss of cheap fuel in US, Obama may have to eat his words as barrel price moves up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...