chessie Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 One of the europhile mantras during the run-up to the UK Referendum on the eu was that the UK's animal welfare standards would not be as high as the eu's. (Load of nonsense because our animal welfare standards have always been higher).But - today's breaking news - EU to 'lift ban on feeding dead animals to livestock' - oh dear g-d - shades of Jacob-Creutzfelt (sorry if spelling is wrong).So now - the eu will permit farmers to feed animals the type of animal feed banned in the UK.Another news story today - the eu will ban any food labels which indicate 'country of origin' - so no more 'Origine de France' in the supermarkets then.So - animals being turned into cannibals; and we will have no idea where our food has been produced.Oh isn't eu harmonisation, and 'ever closer union' just wonderful.Who suggested this ? Who voted on it ? Do we, the citizens of the eu - have any say in this ?Were we even consulted on this ?Think it was Tony Benn who pointed out the major flaw in the eu's so-called democracy didn't he ?Chessie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajal Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 "The EU is the old Soviet Union dressed in Western clothes." (Mikhail Gorbachev.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I think that the law to which chessie refers is this one, and its aims are rather different from the way it has been presented in some UK outlets:https://www.vie-publique.fr/loi/280521-loi-besson-moreau-remuneration-des-agriculteurs-egalim-2"pour l’équilibre des relations commerciales dans le secteur agricole et alimentaire et une alimentation saine, durable et accessible à tous, qui a notamment encadré les promotions et relevé le seuil de revente à perte des produits agricoles afin de lutter contre la guerre des prix"As far as labelling is concerned"L’étiquetage fait l'objet d'autres dispositions. Afin d’assurer la compatibilité entre le droit français et le droit européen, l’obligation d’indication du pays d’origine pour les produits agricoles, alimentaires et de la mer devient limité aux produits pour lesquels il existe un lien avéré entre certaines de leurs propriétés et leur origine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessie Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Norman - The change about feeding animal protein to animals is indeed because it will allow the 'farmers' to provide cheap meat - but at what price in future years -'... As a result of the shift, cheap pig protein could be fed to chickens to ensure European farmers aren’t undercut by lower standards outside the bloc. The change is expected to come into force in August despite a last-ditch attempt by MEPs, led by the Greens, to scrap the policy. An original ban on the practice was introduced during the BSE crisis but it will be lifted after plans were endorsed by all EU member states, except France and Ireland.'The UK's Defra has stated that it has no plans to reduce the already high UK standards on animal feed, and this eu feed would be banned in the UK.Is this report wrong then ?As for the labelling I'll have to go back and check that out.Interesting you took the time to 'correct' my views.Chessie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 No wonder then that the recommendation is to eat vegetarian, not to save the planet but to save yourself!Bloody scary what the masters have planned for their surfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessie Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Theiere - you are right. What is even scarier is that there will be little publicity about this - that we, the little plebs, won't really be told just what's going on.Our wonderful lords and masters will decide for millions and millions of citizens of european countries - and we'll just have to swallow it....... !!Will be interesting to see just how much public awareness there will be about this change in animal feed - it'll be done on the quiet if 'they' can get away with it. So yes, go vegetarian - soon.Chessie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 To think the EU has the temerity to ban us bringing a ham sandwich in for fear of animal welfare standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessie Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Theiere - I was 'taken to task' by another poster and I promised I'd double-check what I had written about food labelling.Here's something more of interest - and if read in conjunction with the article on animal protein being fed to animals - might be some sort of explanation as to why the change in food labelling. We can no longer support french farmers; we will have no idea where our food will come from - or what the animal has been fed. '.....The so-called Egalim 2 Law was passed by the FrenchParliament on Thursday after the first reading. The regulation seeksto no longer oblige to systematically mention the origin of the meatand dairy products used in prepared dishes. The law would see the Origine France label scrapped from a lot ofproducts on French supermarkets' shelves.The proposal, in line with EUDirectives, was lambasted by Les Patriotes leader Florian Philippot.He blasted: "Egalim Law 2: end of the 'Origine France' labelon processed products! "Why? Application of European law which prohibits such alabel! French twitter users - lashed out at Macron's compliance with EU lawon food labels "A scandal, a monstrosity. "Frexit quickly!"Mr Philippot was echoed by Frexit campaigners across the countrywho were quick to reply to his denouncement on Twitter.One French user wrote: "Which means that the EU wants us toeat s**t, which has passed through several countries, and the Greensdo not cry foul for pollution."And another one said: "In addition to this, the EuropeanCommission looks like the political office of the former sovietunion!And here is an extract from an EU body itself - makes for nauseating reading - ..' Slacker EU standards, giving slaughterhouses more control overproduction, have led to more disease-contaminated meat entering thefood chain in Europe, the association of Europe's meat inspectors,the European Working Community for Food Inspection and ConsumerProtection, has said. "I don't think ... it's safe to feedpeople abscesses, pus, and TB material [from pig's heads]," eventhough it is now allowed, said its spokesman. IT'S CALLED - EVER CLOSER UNION - isn't the eu just wonderful !!!!!Chessie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted June 26, 2021 Author Share Posted June 26, 2021 Chessie.So far you have not provided any links to the sources of your quotations.Would you please do so before posting any more views on the matter [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 It reads as if it were from the Daily Express.I repeat my link to the actual proposition https://www.vie-publique.fr/loi/280521-loi-besson-moreau-remuneration-des-agriculteurs-egalim-2and if you prefer a newspaper linkhttps://www.ouest-france.fr/economie/agriculture/proposition-de-loi-sur-la-remuneration-des-agriculteurs-imperieuse-necessite-dit-denormandie-05af5db2-d4dd-11eb-8ba8-8a08e843d49fBoth make it clear that the main purpose of the law is to "protéger la rémunération des agriculteurs " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessfou2 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 "It reads as if it were from the Daily Express."Could be the Heil or the Torygraph. I note there are no actual links to the supposed EU 'quotes'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessie Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Nah, nah, nah, nah - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestockDoes not matter where the TRUTH comes from does it -..You can have all the links you like - but there is the truth.But because it is in the Guardian you will take it as gospel then ?Now - what are your views about this decision by the wonderful eu ?You happy about it ?It is there, it is the truth - if it makes you uncomfortable then be honest.....Chessie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Thank you for that link.We are somewhat at cross-purposes since I was referring to the article about the Egalim 2 Law, not about feeding animal remains.I a not in favour of that any more than I am in favour of Australian beef imports to the UK https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9687561/UK-farmers-blast-trade-deal-Australia-cheap-import-fears.htmlor chlorinated chicken from the USAhttps://www.thegrocer.co.uk/food-safety/chlorinated-chicken-explained-why-do-the-americans-treat-their-poultry-with-chlorine/555618.articleBut I don't think that the UK population had a vote on either of those.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherbanana Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 They do have a vote, with their feet and money. Simples, don’t buy the stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 That logic would also apply to the French consumer, but cassie was complaing that nobody was consulted and blamed on the "undemocratic" EU.People in the UK weren't consulted about the issues I maentioned either, because such things are not decided by referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted June 26, 2021 Author Share Posted June 26, 2021 [quote user="chessie"]Nah, nah, nah, nah - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestockDoes not matter where the TRUTH comes from does it -..You can have all the links you like - but there is the truth.But because it is in the Guardian you will take it as gospel then ?Now - what are your views about this decision by the wonderful eu ?You happy about it ?It is there, it is the truth - if it makes you uncomfortable then be honest.....Chessie[/quote]First prize for a flippant, non-informative reply [:D]BTW, I don't give a monkey's whether it's in the Guardian or the Red Flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessie Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Nomoss - oh now that is most unpleasant - and rather disrepectful - I am surprised at you young man, very surprised.How can a comment - which included a link to the subject we have been discussing, possibly be described as flippant ?I gave you a link; unlike some who went off giving links about the USA and chlorinated chicken and other strange items - none of which had anything to do with the eu - and we were discussing the eu - not other countries.I gave the link to the Guardian simply because of the sneering that takes place at any ref to the DT, or the DM, or even - shock, horror - the D Express - all totally beyond the pale for some.But the Guardian, the Holy Grail for the eu fanatics, is taken as gospel. So I gave the link to the Guardian - how the hell is that flippant ?I also asked a very serious question about this new drop in animal feed standards - it was a serious question - not flippant - and one to which no-one has dared to comment.........You state you don't mind where the news comes from; that's great - very open-minded of you. But some will not accept any news unless it is printed in the Guardian. (Owned by two multi-millionaire brothers, and registered in a tax haven - very left wing morals and ethics there don't you think ?)And the comments so far received would seem to confirm Ken's earlier posting about the political view-points of many on here. But this issue of animal feed is serious; yes it's possible to 'vote with your feet' as some have suggested - provided that you have the knowledge, and the information is shown on the food label..............yes ? That's fine when it comes to one particular food item.But this - feeding animal protein to animals is insidious - it will be within every animal..... and as consumers you, me, we, won't have a clue - and we will not be able to 'vote with our feet'.I find it disturbing; I asked a serious question as to how people felt about this -and I get your response..................Thank you Nomoss for your very erudite and intelligent response - I'm sure others will enjoy your comment as well.Chessie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 chessie:You were criticising the "other" forum, there is absolutely no doubt about that. You say in another post "If you really want to see the rabid nutters, those who hate the British Brexit voters, who think France and the french are wonderful and cannot be criticised -there is another forum - from which I've been banned for not being leftie enough !!" I wonder why that post was not deleted by our wonderful moderator?I received a PM from Hoddy after complaining (twice) about a post on the subject of discussing other forum, here it is:"There are only two of us moderating the forum at the moment. And, contrary to what you seem to think neither of us is online 24 hours a day.An occasional thanks rather than a sarcastic question would be appreciated."The post I complained about was deleted.That "other forum" has many more posts/members than this one and in my opinion more friendly. To get banned from that other forum you must have been just as rabid a nutter as you are on here... I wonder how long before you are banned from this one?I hope a few people read this post before I'm banned and Hoddy deletes it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 "That "other forum" has many more posts/members than this one and in my opinion more friendly. "This is the funniest comment I've ever seen, OK it might have more members, but friendly. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 Where were we? Oh yes meat! My personal view is that feeding dead animals to live animals isn't the sort of thing that should happen. However, despite happenings like the Polish 'sick cow' experience, B.S.E. and other food scares it seems the E.U are prepared to take the risk of it happening again. That a product from God knows where will end up on my supermarket shelf is of some concern!Of course, the E.U. can do no wrong but unlike some here I'm afraid I don't feel that way. Incidentally these are my views so am unable to provide a link!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 Ken wrote "My personal view is that feeding dead animals to live animals isn't the sort of thing that should happen".I'm sure that every predator will agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 oops ... double post (???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betise Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 [quote user="Geordie"]chessie:You were criticising the "other" forum, there is absolutely no doubt about that. You say in another post "If you really want to see the rabid nutters, those who hate the British Brexit voters, who think France and the french are wonderful and cannot be criticised -there is another forum - from which I've been banned for not being leftie enough !!" I wonder why that post was not deleted by our wonderful moderator?I received a PM from Hoddy after complaining (twice) about a post on the subject of discussing other forum, here it is:"There are only two of us moderating the forum at the moment. And, contrary to what you seem to think neither of us is online 24 hours a day.An occasional thanks rather than a sarcastic question would be appreciated."The post I complained about was deleted.That "other forum" has many more posts/members than this one and in my opinion more friendly. To get banned from that other forum you must have been just as rabid a nutter as you are on here... I wonder how long before you are banned from this one?I hope a few people read this post before I'm banned and Hoddy deletes it![/quote]Geordie, the code of conduct for THIS forum says "Comments or questions regarding the general administration of the forum should be made by "private message" or using the "Report" link to the moderators or direct to Forum Admin. Such comments or questions should not be posted in the open forum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessie Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 Geordie - I would not complain about your post - nor would I wish it to be deleted. You have your views about me - simply because I pointed out the very left-wing outlook on a different place. To allege that I am a 'rabid nutter' is not very nice, rather unpleasant, totally untrue (because I have not given details about why I was 'banned - and totally not for the reasons you may think); it also lets down the whole tone of the serious discussion that should be taking place.As for the poster who wrote - 'animals eat animals' comment - oh come on - you 'cannot be serious'!! Those other animals are predators - they have evolved to do just that. We are talking about herbivores, evolved NOT to eat meat - being fed their own kind.That is so, so wrong, morally and otherwise; and I find it very concerning that there seems to be acceptance of this - do you all think it is right ?And if it is not right - then why no criticism of the eu for encouraging this ?Chessie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessfou2 Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 "Does not matter where the TRUTH comes from does it"No, it does not, but one can't expect the truth from any newspaper, especially UK ones that are known to write about the 'evil empire' of the EU, not even Le Monde, even if some of them are more reliable than UK Gov press releases (or even UK Gov statements in court). The 'truth' has to be searched for.I have not found anything actually from the EU on this (the nearest being the Guardian article's reference to 'having seen' a document) while the other junk news lacks any rigour whatsoever. The nearest I have been able to find is https://efpra.eu/processed-animal-protein/The main points of 'the truth' are that:1. You do not feed animal protein to herbivores, that way lies BSE & CJD (cows & sheep being herbivores) and it is clear that this will remain interdit;2. You avoid 'cannibalism' because that way seems also to lie BSE & CJD, similarly remaining interdit;3. Omnivores are OK eating animal protein (i.e. humans, pigs, chickens), but not their own species (see 2);4. Omnivores already eat animal proteins (pigs eat eggs, small mammals and insects; chickens, ideally, eat insects, assuming they are not battery fed).5. Expect almost any UK news source to write all kinds of nonsense, especially if they can tag it with an anti-EU, anti-France or anti-Germany view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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