idun Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/01/cancer-best-way-to-die_n_6403344.htmlI don't believe that this Dr is far off the mark. There again, with my family history, I probably look upon this rather differently to most other people I know. I feel pretty much the same about some heart ops too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have a sort of sneaky admiration for him as he will now get a lot of flak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 My father died of cancer, frankly it was like some kind of protracted hell for nearly three years for me and my sister and probably my mother too...it's not only the patient involved....My mother died in September, she was unwell for less than a week, even the day she died she managed breakfast and lunch and then just went to sleep...that's what I call a good way to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 There are many awful ways to die. I envy those who just go in their sleep.I don't fear cancer, I don't fear most illness, but I fear dementia, that for me is the worst of worst nightmares. I am glad that this Dr has started this debate, for me it needs addressing as does all medical treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I'm sorry to read about your mother's death, Russethouse, but as you say, she had a good death.I can't agree with the views in the article at all. My mother died of cancer, and her last couple of months were terrible. My father fell in his beloved garden one September evening, lay there all night and had pneumonia by the time he was discovered; he died about 48 hours later without regaining consciousness and didn't suffer during that time at all.My dear SIL died of cancer last summer; she was told that she had 2 months at most to live, but lasted 6 months to the day. She had time to give away jewellery etc to friends and family, sent most of her clothes to charity shops and arranged her funeral service, all of which gave her great comfort. Her last 2 months were spent in bed, gradually becoming less herself and more in pain and it was extremely distressing for her family and close friends. She wanted to die at home rather in the local hospice, and was at times in enormous pain, despite excellent care from her GP, practice nurses and hospice nurses, who often came out at night to give her more morphine. My other SIL also died in pain from cancer 3 years ago. Not all pain can be blocked.To die a peaceful death, particularly in your own bed and without pain, with your faculties undiminished, with family around you is the ideal. But it so often isn't what happens. I dread the thought of dementia, which my MIL had, but she was never in pain, and finally slipped away aged 91. The level of pain I have witnessed is something I fear greatly, and I don't wish my family to suffer the distress felt about my SIL last year.I think it's excellent that the debate about assisted dying is coming more to the fore. However, I can see the pitfalls that could lie ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I guess most of the time the patient with dementia is blissfully unaware, with perhaps occasional moments of possibly hellish lucidity , but I suspect it's worse for the carers who can see the gradual demise.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I have two friends who were widowed ... one whose husband died suddenly of a heart attack, and the other whose husband suffered over two long-drawn out years with cancer. Each thinks the other had it easier ... the first to have the chance to say goodbye, and the latter to have been spared the pain of a slow and torturous passing. Grass is greener, etc ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 [quote user="gardengirl "]I think it's excellent that the debate about assisted dying is coming more to the fore. However, I can see the pitfalls that could lie ahead.[/quote]GG, there was an article in the Daily Mail late last night, which I came across straight after I had read this thread. Sorry, I seem to have lost the facility for making links or rather, I have lost that facility, being forgetful and pathetic.It starts with a case of a Dutch man who picked a day for the doctor to call and give him the necessary injections. Apparently, thousands of people in Holland are choosing this route.Can't say I blame them. I hope that, when my time comes and it's appropriate, I would be able to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I suppose there are different ways to view matters:Economic - keep increasing life expectancy and the more has to be paid in pensions. People will have to work far later in life before drawing a pension as the 'youngsters' in work will not be paying enough in taxes.Humanitarian - life is precious so should be extended as long as possible.Population - constantly increasing causing housing problems unless a vast expansion of building programme.World population - assume cures for cancer will be generally available and 'cheap' so those appeals for £2 to feed the hungry of Africa will increase and probably send £2 for cancer cures.Mobility - after cancer there will be something else to find a cure for. How will you fare at, say, 120 years old? I can remember in my younger days I would start renovating a house, finish at midnight and back up and working at 6am the next day - cannot do that now and I am only half way to 120 :)Assisted suicide - yes, if life had lost its quality for whatever reason for me I would like to 'end it'. If you are in control of all your faculties then you do not need a hand. Obviously, there is a need for controls to prevent getting rid of someone so they can receive their inheritance early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 The original post (which avoids interpretations from intermediaries) is herehttp://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2014/12/31/richard-smith-dying-of-cancer-is-the-best-death/I hope he has the chance to experience his choice slowly and over a long period.If he does he might find that his " romantic view of dying" is not always' achievable with love, morphine, and whisky'That is a sanitised view of terminal cancer which a Doctor should know to be a wicked lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 He and all of you seem to be talking about dying at a ripe old age - don't forget that young, sometimes very young, people get and die from cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 That fact, plus this article, shows why cancer research is not a "waste of billions"http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11320497/Most-cancers-are-caused-by-bad-luck-not-genes-or-lifestyle-say-scientists.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 In all honesty I have only ever seen one person die, my Uncle, on holiday with us who had a heart attack. I am now over 60. I daresay that most of us will not have seen death very often, or at all. There would seem a general obsession about being young these days, from that banal of refusing to have grey hair and paying a fortune in face creams to plastic surgery in all it's guises. Then there are families who want their relatives to be kept alive at all costs. Humanitarian, I've seen people in such states that one would be reported for cruelty if an animal had been left in such a state and in such pain.Basically we all have to die. By luck/fate I am not dying of a truly terrible illness where all my faculties would diminish and would have diminished by now.........and be in the care of others doing literally everything for me as my mind as well as my body stopped working. I lived for many years believing that I could have this ....... as I said, one would not keep an animal in such a state. When I eventually found out I was clear, then the thought, of 'what will get me?' came to mind. The only thing that really worries me is dementia. My friend's father in his 80's knew he had a cancer, did nothing about it until he was really ill and then solicited pain relief. I suppose at the end of the day, we are all mortal and adults as well as children and babes all die, that is nature at work. Re the cancer, the only thing that would bother me is pain, and I would want relief from that, whether it was 'me' ridding myself of it quickly or if the medics could do a good enough job. I am rather glad that this debate has been started. My view on life on death, is perhaps very different from most other peoples, but they haven't had the same experience as I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Re the cancer, the only thing that would bother me is pain, and I would want relief from that, whether it was 'me' ridding myself of it quickly or if the medics could do a good enough job.There are two sorts of pain involved in dying of cancer.The first is physical and it is simply not true that this can always be managed by drugs.Some cancers are terribly painful and the only thing that can be done is to knock you out as if anaesthetised, far from the peaceful picture of having time to 'discuss theology' or 'sort out relationships' peddled by this blog.The second is the long-drawn out awarenss that 'this is finally it....this wonderful complex being that is me is about to stop'Some people can handle this by a delusion that there will be an after-life, or simply are so tired by the disease that they no longer are very aware.Other are simply terrified of the inevitabilty and this terror is prolonged by the fact that most deaths from cancer are not swift.I have spent many nights in chemotherapy and surgical wards and seen some of this at first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 As I had years and years to think about all this, and that was when I was comparitively young..........I don't think that I think about 'me' stopping, rather just going to sleep...... forever. I will be shocked if there is an after life or I come back as something else and have a fleeting realisation that that is what has happened. As I have said in the past, with all these things concerning illness, it is the not knowing that is always the worst thing really for me. I can cope better with knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 NH your statement 'Some people can handle this by a delusion that there will be an after-life' that an after life is only a delusion cannot be proved. Whilst I do not believe in an after life - when I die that will be it - others do believe this and willing commit suicide so that they enter Paradise and get their ration of virgins......how selfless of their religious leaders to selflessly assist others to have the joy of Paradise whilst denying themselves such pleasures.Most religions seem to stress a judgement day when one dies.I suppose it depends how important we feel that we are to, well, the Universe. How will the Universe be worse off when I die - it will not. So does it really matter overall when I die - no.Has our World benefited from Man? No - look at the number of species that have been hunted to extinction just so that people could say they had shot one.And what of the medical profession - one day, for example, red wine is good for you and the next it is bad for you. Today cancer is fate, what will it be tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 PaulT, now that is a statement 'I suppose it depends on how important we feel that we are to, well, the Universe'!!!!!I don't 'feel' important. I just try and live decently and not do anything 'I' would or could be ashamed of. My youngest son, at a rather young age had an extremely inflated feeling of self. We were in the city we used to live in when our eldest was born and were passing the rue we used to live on and I pointed it out. Youngest.... three or four at the time, asked 'where was I?'. So I explained that he had not been born when we lived there....... at which point he started genuinely weeping, big tears, along with wailing, he was distraught, repeating that it hadn't been possible for him never to have existed. I doubt he can remember now, but it was quite something to see and hear, especially as I had never thought along those lines myself, or have heard any other child make such a remark.Yes, religions do say that there will be a judgement day, but wasn't that just to keep the masses in order, just as most of the 'earthly' rules were to keep women in their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I have witnessed first hand the deaths of three loved ones (mother, father, brother) from cancer. I have also lost two loved ones (baby son, best friend) very suddenly. I have had cancer myself.The loss of someone suddenly is devastating. The loss of someone from cancer does give time to prepare. But for cancer to be a merciful death, it needs to be coupled with assisted dying. The three cancer deaths that I witnessed were miserable, ghastly and pain ridden in their last few days of life.I think that the doctor is generally right in his supposition but thinking that love, morphine and whisky can lessen the pain at the end is completely erroneous.I just hope, hope, hope that we shall bring in assisted dying. Our pets are able to have a merciful death. Why can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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