What does this mean?

[powerdesal]

In the village bar / tabac, whenever I leave after buying something, I say the usual (phonetically)...''Merci , au'voir'', the response from Mr Grumpy ( ! ) the bar owner is ''allez au'voir'' ( again, how it sounds, not necessarily the correct spelling)

Now I understand 'au'voir ' but not the prefix of ''allez'' with it.

I suppose it could be ''go - good bye'' or even a local version of ''sod off'' !!!!

Any ideas ?????????

[NormanH]

It doesn't really mean anything I don't think. It's a bit like saying "OK then, goodbye"

Often someone will reply allez to a question

'On mange un morceau?' (shall we have a bite to eat?)

to which the reply could well be 'Allez' (OK then)

[Cendrillon]

I think it's just a way of terminating the conversation.

Yes, I am sure Norman is right.

edit

Even more confusing is the command "Allez - viens"

[Chancer]

No direct translation and depends on the context it could be "right then.............." or "OK............................." or if its "Allez-y!" then its "lets go!"

[mint]

[quote user="Chancer"]

No direct translation and depends on the context it could be "right then.............." or "OK............................." or if its "Allez-y!" then its "lets go!"

[/quote]

Or, "you go ahead"; "off you go" when letting someone go in front of you, such as in a queue or through a door.

If I want to say "let's go", I'll probably say "on y va" or even "allons-y" if I am feeling gramatically pernickety!

[idun]

I like 'allez'. I use it a lot. Allez for me has many uses. I understand it's many many uses. Some ofcourse may have been from my area of France, but it isn't as if it hasn't been understood elsewhere.

I would say Chancer that it implies more than just 'right then' or 'OK'. It means to come, to get a move on, an encouragement......... an example, encouraging someone to do something or drink or eat something.  There are many ways to use it. I have never thought about it before, but it is certainly part of my vocabulary. Maybe lazy french, but that is how people speak........

In the NE of England we use 'away' a lot too. Maybe that is why I like allez[:D]. Years ago my Dad was working with a southerner, and this man was trying to back a lorry into a space that was a bit tight. My Dad was directing him, then the man heard my Dad shout, 'away, away, away' and he drove off and parked at the other side of the yard.

[NormanH]

You are right that there is a sense of movement in 'allez' which can be expected given its primary meaning.

' get on with it' for example, or "come on" when encouraging a team 'Allez les Bleus'

'Get a move on' in "Allez Coco"

I have always found it difficult to translate the singular version 'va' in phrases like "Avec le temps , avec le temps , va , tout s ' en va ."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=496ed3crJZc&feature=related

[mint]

When I walked with the randonneurs in CM, the leader would say, "on y va" after a stop for a drink of water and/or a pee as a way of rounding everyone up and a signal to get ready to move off.

I also noticed the one or two occasions when I have watched a table tennis match when OH was playing, that the arbitre (is that spelling right?) would say, "on y va" which I translate as OK, if you are both ready, we'll start the match.

Anyway, "on y va" just slips off the tongue, so I tend to say that.

If I'm just ready to leave and no one seems to want to move, I say "allez, je m'en vais!" which I feel is not too abrupt or, if I am the one holding everyone else up, I think it's a way to reassure people that I shan't be lingering!

 

 

[Chancer]

Its best not to try to relate to your own language, translate etc, I know its impossible in the early stages but you have been here a long time Powderesal, eventually you will know what is said in certain circumstances and start doing so yourself, bien sur there will be big mistakes usually pronunciation thinking that you have heard a word you know whereas in fact its another etc.

There are many French words and phrases that I know well and am comfortable using but just could not translate into English, there is not an equivalent and a literal translation is nonsense yet often unwittingly that is what I do these days when speaking English, my family think I am going mad but its all going on at a subconscious level.

For instance if you think about the literal translation of "je vous en prie" you will just get really confused but its obvious when to use it and what is being conveyed.

[powerdesal]

''Its best not to try to relate to your own language, translate etc, I know its impossible in the early stages but you have been here a long time Powderesal, eventually you will know what is said in certain circumstances and start doing so yourself, bien sur there will be big mistakes usually pronunciation thinking that you have heard a word you know whereas in fact its another etc.''

Chancer,

I trust your comment about being here a long time refers to my forum membership rather than an assumption that I am resident in France ( which I am not - yet ).

It is, in my opinion, quite logical to try to translate what you hear into your own language, especially when trying to further the French learning experience. That's how people learn.

There are many local phrases / slang phrases used in different parts of any country, France is no different in that respect. Hence my original question.

[Chancer]

Hadnt realised that P, I thought that you lived here when not working offshore.

Logical it may seem and I (and I am sure most people) did the same initially but it is often counter productive for anything other than nouns, eventually, and I suppose this depends on your level of immersion, you gradually stop attempting to translate and just to understand, you start thinking in French, and thats when the learning shifts up several gears and is very rewarding, the downside is you can find yourself struggling to express yourself in English, you know what you want to say, you know how you feel but in French not English.

I agree with you, thats how people learn, but with thea addition of "adult people" and "initially", eventually they unconsciously revert to learning as a baby or a child does, the survival instinct can also play a part dependant on the circumstances.

A child would just work out that the bar owner (OK not likely to be him!) would say "Allez" before saying goodbye or whatever, after being sure they would mimic, initially to him and then to their family, wider circle of friends etc, they may sense that their parents or grandparents dont like this (it could be a vulgarity or too commmon for them etc) and they learn which words can only be used in which company, this is exactly what happens with me and I am cautious when first repeating an expression and watch carefully the reaction of the other person(s) a child probably does this intuitively far better than me.

[Rabbie]

From my experience of learning Swedish  I found it very easy to fall into the trap of doing mental word for word translations which sometimes resulted in very poor language. I was told by a language teacher at least to switch to sentence by sentence tranlations which has helped both in Sedish and French. The real secret is to learn to think in the foreign language - a goal I still aspire to[:)]

[powerdesal]

I have in fact retired from offshore / overseas work and now spend my ''retirement'' between France and England, attempting to make the French house fully liveable in before committing to a permanent move.

I have been told, on numerous occasions, by a fluent French speaking Irish acquaintance, that my French language skills are quite good, I don't feel they are but.............

The Bar owner is definitely a ''Mr Grumpy'' and I wondered ( fleetingly ) whether his 'allez au'voir' was possibly a grumpy anti-English use of language as no one I know had heard / used it before.

[Chancer]

Without the description I would have said no, "Allez! Au revoir!" is normally said positively but of course if a normal person were to say it in a grumpy way it could be sarcastic, sounds just like he is not an enthusiastic or happy person.

Around here at least you only meet a certain "speciale" type of personne in the cafés and that includes the patrons!

[mint]

[quote user="Chancer"]

I agree with you, thats how people learn, but with thea addition of "adult people" and "initially", eventually they unconsciously revert to learning as a baby or a child does, the survival instinct can also play a part dependant on the circumstances.

A child would just work out that the bar owner (OK not likely to be him!) would say "Allez" before saying goodbye or whatever, after being sure they would mimic, initially to him and then to their family, wider circle of friends etc, they may sense that their parents or grandparents dont like this (it could be a vulgarity or too commmon for them etc) and they learn which words can only be used in which company, this is exactly what happens with me and I am cautious when first repeating an expression and watch carefully the reaction of the other person(s) a child probably does this intuitively far better than me.

[/quote] 

I realise that I am going to fly in the face of "conventional wisdom" and disagree that you have to learn a language as a child would!

This is because we are NOT children and cannot go back to that "blank slate" (tabula rasa or whatever the jargon expression is) in order to learn with no pre-conceived ideas.  Of course, that is not possible!  In fact, whenever I see an advertised course that says, learn as a child, look, listen, repeat and learn, it turns me off completely.

It's not only natural but desirable to "translate"!  Why, because you are then able to bring to the new language all the things you already know about the old language.  My German fellow-French student tells me that I am very lucky, knowing English as English and French have so many words in common.  With that, I have to agree.  I often find that, if I don't know a word in French, I only need to use the English word with French pronunciation, and there I have it!

With adverbs, this is wonderful:  thus silencieusement, tranquillement, rapidement, evidemment, précisement, simplement etc etc.  Easy, peasy, no problem translating any of those, is there?

What I would say is, you use ALL the tools you have available.  I am fortunate to have quite a good ear for sounds and also a facility for taking the mick.  So, I do just copy sounds and learn a lot that way.  OTOH, I also use grammar books, French classes, etc to help.   Nobody learns just using one method; you use everything you have available to you.  You might prefer to learn from the written word or just orally; doesn't really matter.  What I WOULD say is, it's a lot easier learning if you have a REAL reason to learn (survival as Chancer has pointed out) or just sheer curiosity or merely loving the sounds and "feel" of a language or even because you need it for work. 

If I am unsure whether a word or phrase is socially acceptable, I don't always just try it out.  As an adult learner, I am able to ask a trusted person, such as my French teacher whether the word or phrase is "familiar" and "pas derogatoire" or would definitely "choquer " mes voisines.

[Pommier]

I don't suppose that the bar tabac is in Percy in Manche is it?

[Chancer]

You make some good points Sweet17 and I agree with all of them, I wasnt advocating that you must learn like a child just that is what happens naturally when you relax and go with the flow, formal learning is of course important without it children and adults would not get to grip with grammar,conjugation, the subjonctif tenses, punctuation or just plain spelling.

I havn't had a lesson since 2007 sadly but my learning has gone in in leaps and bounds since thanks then to those very formal lessons as I build on and use the knowledge every day, without them I would become like a few people that I know that have learned in on the cuff or pillow, they understand a,d speak well but dont have the confidence to write.

As for learnin. like a child I did an intensive course of Spanish in Quito and that is exactly how we learned (or is it learnt? still weak in english) using childrens picture cards and games etc, it was a very very powerfull way of learning and I was amazed at how much we learned in such a short space of time, mind you compared to a young child we were nothing, the other key ingredient of this course was 100% total immersion once they had your money no matter what the problem was they refused to speak to me in English at the end of a couple of weeks I thanked them for this.

The first thing I did in France was to travel to Grenoble for an intensive course with a newly qualified native teacher that i met on the great barrier reef, her style of teaching was very up to date compared to my following teacher who had only trained herself some 10-15 years before, the young girl did a lot of teaching in the child type way but reinforced with grammar, tenses etc.

I suppose I am lucky in that my life in France has been 100% immersion although I didnt consider it luck for a very long time.

[mint]

What I am sure we would both agree on, Chance, is that it is a marvellous thing learning a new language and the thrill you get when you can understand someone and, even better, when they can understand you!

To my own surprise, when I spent a few weeks in Spain, I soon remembered lots of Spanish words that I knew from decades ago in school.  Very strange to realise that there was all that information lodged somewhere inside the brain and you can just retrieve it when you need it!

[powerdesal]

I don't suppose that the bar tabac is in Percy in Manche is it?

Now just how did you guess correctly Pommier ??????

[Chancer]

I was very disheartened after learning what I did of Spanish in 2004 to find that after moving here in 2005 that I rapidly lost it, just as well as I was always confusing the basic things between the languages, to this day I still mistakenly use many Spanish country names having not learned them in French, Mocambique for example.

But as you say its all locked away somewhere and they are gradually coming to the surface again, why? Because I have a young friend half French half Portuguese who also speaks Spanish and English, 4 languages puts me to shame !!! and I often hear him speaking it or Portuguese on the phone, being young of course its always in use! His girlfriend who lives in Portugal is learning French but speaks good English, its great fun when we are together as there are 3 languages going on at any one time.

And then recently to my great joy 3 young girls have joined the keep fit classes that I do, all teachers at the lycée (they might be teaching assistants) one Spanish, one German and une Anglaise, the only common language amongst us is French in which none of us individually are strong, but collectively we are and its a great atmosphere something I have really missed since travelling.

At long last I have found people who are knowledgeable of and with whom I can talk about things that occur outside of a 2km radius without them considering me like an alien or the enemy.

[Pommier]

[quote user="powerdesal"]I don't suppose that the bar tabac is in Percy in Manche is it? Now just how did you guess correctly Pommier ??????[/quote]

Ha ha - we used to live in Percy and he used to say the same to us, and with such a miserable expression on his face I always thought he was saying 'just push off out of my bar' (or worse!).  

[idun]

I had to smile to myself about an hour ago. I called my son and he wasn't in, so left a message, which was really for his girlfriend.

I don't translate when I speak in french and I heard myself finish the message, 'allez, au voir'. And then I put the phone down and was much amused. I must always say this, as I said it quite naturally. I hadn't realised.

[Chancer]

My friend who is a bit of a charmer and a salesman always finishes a telephone call with "Saleee!!!" said with a beaming smile, not that the other person can see it but to give you the idea of how it is said.

I asked him once what it meant and even to spell it but was not much the wiser, I think it started from a Belgian friend who pronounced "salut" like "Saleee!". I still cant see why the parting word on the phone would be salut [8-)]

Its not one that I have copied!

[Frecossais]

My sister who lives and works in France told me that she felt she had "got" French when she heard herself describing a table as "elle."

I think I will have arrived when I remember to use "si" instead of "oui" in reply to  a negative statement, and "d'accord" instead of OK.

Has anybody else any milestones they have reached or are aiming to reach in using french?

[Chancer]

Yes "si" was also a déclic for me.

I am used to setting myself targets that I think are , unattainable, makes one work harder, I have been pleasantly surprised to have achieved most of them, an early one was to be able to express in detail emotion, sentiments, feeling, opinions on any subject rather than just being able to say something was bon(ne) or pas bon(ne).

I had a long and technical conversation on the phone with a would be buyer of something I have on Leconcoin, unexpected and hence I was unprepared and having to deal with questions that I hadnt considered yet I also managed to sell the virtues of my item to someone who like all the others could not cope with the fact that something made and sold in another country (UK) was different to what he was used to in France and could not believe that the whole world was not like his.

At the end of it I exclaimed to myself, bloomin eck you did well there, chapeau! [:D]