I would have had to...........

[mint]

How do you say that in French, svp?

That and "it would have been"?

If I tried to work it out for myself, I am bound to get it wrong and, just this once, it's important that I can say what I mean!

[Patf]

Could you use devoir? Je devais ....etc.

It probably uses the subjunctive which I never learned.

Should have would have could have etc.

There's also the conditional form of the verb, which I don't know either.

[EuroTrash]

No it's not subjunctives, it's conditionals (I think! I've forgotten all my grammar terminology)..

Often for I would have had to, the easiest way is to use Il aurait fallu (= it would have been necessary to, (il m'aurait fallu if you specifially want to get the 'me' in), followed by the infinitive.

There is also 'j'aurais dû' but that's more I should have than I would have had to - it suggest you failed to do something that you should have done.

It would have been = Il/ cela aurait été.

[Gardengirl]

I think they need the conditional, Mint.

1. J'aurais dû

2. il aurait été

are what I would use, not confident though. I hope somebody else will pop along soon who really does know

Sorry, scratching my head trying to remember meant ET posted before me. I think I need more revision!

[Chancer]

Spot on,.

 

j'aurais dû followed by verb infinitif

 

 

Il aurait été followed by verb infinitif

 

I was very proud when I worked those out by myself from obeservation, listening then trying them and gauging the reaction, it was the first real milestone of my informal learning after my lessons stopped, given your level Mint I am surprised you did not conquer those a long time ago but perhaps you are following structured learning, profs dont like helping you run before they think you can walk.

 

I recall early on wanting to get to grips with coulda shoulda woulda!

 

Eurotrash, you make a good point, I need to revisit my learning and be able to differentiate between the two nuances.

 

[EuroTrash]

I bet you pick up on the difference unconsiously when you hear it Chancer, but maybe not consciously when you're saying it yourself.

J'aurais dû envoyer un chèque - I should have sent a cheque (but I forgot and now I've got a late payment penalty slapped on).

Il m'aurait fallu envoyer un chèque - I would have had to send a cheque (if I hadn't lived near enough to call in and pay cash).

Devoir is a beggar to translate sometimes because it means should and it means must, and to an English mind should and must don't mean the same thing.

[idun]

Me not knowing all the grammar, would say il aurait ete. Would have just come out.

But is it right???? I'm not sure, but for me it seems to have always said what I wanted it too[Www]

[EuroTrash]

Yes I think we're unanimous on il aurait été :-)

[alittlebitfrench]

NO, NO, No, No....you are all wrong....even Chancer lol.

Who says in France 'I would have had to ' ?

I asked my 7 year old to translate a series of phrases starting with ''I would have had to' and...well the translation depends on the given sentence. Nothing to do with the translations given here.

So, there you go.

I have to admit, that is what I thought originally when I read this thread.

Yours sincerely

French forum god

[mint]

Thank you, one and all.  It's pure laziness on my part that I am not sure of these tenses.  BUT, I promise that I am going to be getting down to them!!!

Meanwhile, I can now compose my message with bravado if not real knowledge............[I]

[mint]

Just written my message and feel really buoyed up by being able to use the phrases that you have given me[:D]

Nice not to write like an illiterate and even nicer to feel confident about what I have written.

Thanks again.

[EuroTrash]

ALBF - I suspect that if you asked an English 7 year old to translate j'aurais dû, he wouldn't come up with I should have either."I oughta of", very likely ;-)

[alittlebitfrench]

@ ET

I did it the other way around...English to French.

ooohh I might add.....their first language is French. I will ask the other one when they get back....for a laugh.

[NormanH]

I would have had to work more hours

Il aurait fallu que je fasse plus d'heures

I think that there is also the more literary

il eût fallu, but that is a step too far.

I doubt that a 7 year old whose first language is French would be able to understand the English "I would have had to".

People think that native French speakers are always right.

What they say may well be perfect French, but it is only a correct translation if they also understand the English original.

[EuroTrash]

"People think that native French speakers are always right."

Not when you get emails and textos from them on a daily basis, you don't.

It's gobsmacking how many people you would think would know better, regularly write "tu a", "je fait", "je vais regardé" etc. But what's interesting is that they make different mistakes from the ones I make. They rarely seem to forget agreements (which I do) or use subjunctives wrongly (which I do) or miss accents off (which I do), and if you read aloud what they've written, it always sounds right, they only seem to get the inaudible bits wrong.

[alittlebitfrench]

Norman said......

'I doubt that a 7 year old whose first language is French would be able to understand the English "I would have had to".

You would be surprised Norman.

Like I said, translating 'I would have had to' out of context is I think a pointless exercise.

Might be wrong...!!!

[EuroTrash]

ALBF, I'm sure he or she got across the meaning of what he or she understood from the English you gave them. But a 7 year old, of any native language, expresses themself like a 7 year old, which isn't always quite the same as how an adult would say the same thing. They have a lot of language learning ahead of them - if they knew it all at 7, they'd get very bored in their French classes for the next 10 years ;-)

[alittlebitfrench]

ET....you are showing your age lol.

Did I mention my boy is very advanced....VERY !

French kids are quite advanced in language by the age of 7.

[mint]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]"People think that native French speakers are always right."

Not when you get emails and textos from them on a daily basis, you don't.

It's gobsmacking how many people you would think would know better, regularly write "tu a", "je fait", "je vais regardé" etc. But what's interesting is that they make different mistakes from the ones I make. They rarely seem to forget agreements (which I do) or use subjunctives wrongly (which I do) or miss accents off (which I do), and if you read aloud what they've written, it always sounds right, they only seem to get the inaudible bits wrong.[/quote]

Yes, I know someone who can't seem to make the distinction between the infinitive and the past particple.  She always gets it when I explain it to her but she always forgets the explanation after a while and she'd ask me again what the difference is.  When is it "er" and when "é", she'd ask, looking puzzled.

The other day, we were writing a collective letter to go out to members of our association and the French (of which there were four) didn't know whether there was an "s" for attendre for the first person singular.  When I said that it must be like je prends and therefore j'attends would have an "s", they looked at me amazed............!

It's as you say, they only get the "inaudible bits wrong"[:D]

[Chancer]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]"People think that native French speakers are always right." Not when you get emails and textos from them on a daily basis, you don't. It's gobsmacking how many people you would think would know better, .[/quote]

 

Tu parles!!!!!!

 

Here is the first sentence on an e-mail I recieved last week which really made me reconsider the sender, he is the national, perhaps international contracts manager of a aérospace sub contract company that employs several hundred intérimaires in the factory opposite, aside from seeming very impatient for someone who is the chef of a lot of people I would not have doubted him till I saw the following.

 

Bonjour Chancer
 Je n'est pas reçu le contrat de location comme prevu pour le 6 du mois prochain.

 

My instincts were right, he had paid an accompte of €300 in cash and neither turned up or phoned on the first day of the 2 month rental, was evasive when I finally got hold of him and thought that by paying me €300 (the monthly rental for the 2 month period was €600) entitled him to bloquer the appartement for 2 weeks, I have already been screwed over by his company and had turned away several demandeurs in the last week, I disabused him and said that in the absence of a signed contract and all monies paid I would hold the apartment only as long as his acompte was being eaten up at the normal nightly rate, ergo 4 nights.

 

The previous tenant worked for the same company, he never knew how long it would last, he rented month by month and never knew till the last minute, I understand that but at the end of Feb he was told on the Tuesday that his contract was confirmed till the end of the year so he could go ahead and formalise his hebergement, the very next day him and all his co-équipiers were laid off without any notice, within an hour the boss who gave him the big E phoned me to reserve the apartment.

 

So what might seem a tiny mistake to many was enough to put me on my guard and i was right to do so, how can an educated Professional person not know which of the two major verbs to use as an auxiliary in the passé composé?

 

Have you seen some of the howlers in Leboncoin?

[alittlebitfrench]

So what....I have you seen how badly I write English ?

Even illiterate French people can kick your @rses when it comes to communicating in France.

Now you lot, stop being idiot Brits abroad.

[NormanH]

When I was supply teaching in a lycée I often had to correct the written French of the students.

It was not so bad higher up..

On the other hand the Midi Libre ( hardly the Brits in France) is as famous for its mistakes as the Grauniad used to be

[EuroTrash]

But by the same token, how many UK company directors can't do it's and its, or there and their and they're, and totally rely on their secretaries to protect them from letting on to other people how illiterate they are. Which is fair enough, they're good at what they do which is the main thing. But, you can't assume that being a native speaker or even a well educated native speaker means you are competent in your own language, because some people just don't have good language skills, full stop.

Except in your case Chancer, this guy doesn't seem to be good at his job either.

[richard51]

Thank you for an interesting thread albeit could have been solved by google translate. Its getting better but does lack context.

Think the thread has digressed somewhat. However.....

Chancer: I think your problem would have been the same if you were discussing with a company in england. The company employee probably intended to confuse.

Norman: spot on!

ET: I agree.

ALBF: I think you are rather naive if you think your 7 year old is the font of knowledge concerning french language, Just wait until adolescence kicks in with him and you may change your mind. I was slightly amused when you implied that you were totally integrated into france. Again you are perhaps a little naive - I suspect even your close ones consider you as the english one!

[mint]

As it happens, I NEVER use Google translate.  I like to use what language I have and, when I find that to be inadequate, I like to come on the Forum and learn from people who know more than I do.  Besides, if we use nothing but Google translate and do forth, what would happen to the forum if nobody posts questions?

This was NOT a "meaning" question, merely a grammar one and no "context" would change grammatical expressions?

What context do you need, alors?  I would have had to choose from a narrow range of products, I would have had to give up crisps for Lent (thank you, Mrs May for that one), I would have had to allow in more child refugees, I would have had to leave immediately, I would have had to stop contributing altogether on the forum?

What context?  I merely wanted to be able to get the tense and therefore the sense right.  I am not quoting from a text, I am creating a text in my head.  And context would not have added anything to any of the answers I have received.

I would have had to go to Google translate if I had been that desperate.