Richard51 Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 It's curious that there have been two problems with arrests involving Romanians in the last couple of weeks - reported in different newspapers. Re the comment on drunken, loutish, Brit behaviour. I would think the behaviour described by Swissie is a pretty accurate description...and that it would be reasonable to tar at leasts 60% of the UK's younger population with that brush (speaking as someone who has regular contact with that age group). Given that the British stereotype is actually pretty darn accurate - why not the Roma / Romanian one?Mrs R51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 [quote user="Richard51"]It's curious that there have been two problems with arrests involving Romanians in the last couple of weeks - reported in different newspapers. Re the comment on drunken, loutish, Brit behaviour. I would think the behaviour described by Swissie is a pretty accurate description...and that it would be reasonable to tar at leasts 60% of the UK's younger population with that brush (speaking as someone who has regular contact with that age group). Given that the British stereotype is actually pretty darn accurate - why not the Roma / Romanian one?Mrs R51[/quote]What evidence have you to support this assertion, who collected it and how has it been tested?Given that your account of the British stereotype is unquantified anecdotal and unsubstantiated why should anyone give any weight to your views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 An article rather more on-topichttp://www.lemonde.fr/opinions/article/2010/04/10/racisme-marginalite-le-triste-sort-des-roms_1331596_3232.html#ens_id=1278906 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swissie Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Thanks Norman. I have a friend who teaches Manouche kids in the Pyrrenees, and she says the discrimination is awful.Romas, be they Romanian, Bulgarian or indeed French , are not representative of their nation of origins. The Romas from the Camargue are not typical examples of the French population. Neither are the Romas or Gypsies of Ireland typical representative of the Irish. Get it? Maybe it is my 'foriner' English which is making the concept difficult to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard51 Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Normie, a meander through facebook and a walk around most British town / city centres on a Friday / Saturday night (if you're brave enough) would give you more that enough information (sadly). Edit - it's Mrs R51 again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-element Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Thank you Norman for that informative article. Unfortunately, as it is in French, it will not be read by everyone.As for the living conditions of Roms in Romania, here is a very recent report by Amnesty International (in English, which should please everybody!)http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18587 There are almost 2.2 million Roma in Romania – making up about 10 per cent of the total population. As a result of widespread discrimination, both by public officials and society at large, 75 per cent of Roma live in poverty, as opposed to 24 per cent of Romanians and 20 per cent of ethnic Hungarians, the largest minority in Romania. The levels of physical health and living conditions of the Roma are among the worst in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard51 Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Certainly from a UK perspective (sorry I can't speak from a French perspective as I have no experience) the gypsy population want our social support network but don't want to work and contribute to it, so it's hardly surprising they have a bad reputation. They moved onto my brother's land here in the UK, made an absolute pigsty of it with waste, excrement and refuse piled high, and it took months, thousands of pounds and a court injunction (plus the heavy brigade) to move them on. Mrs R51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 [quote user="velcorin"]A musing.................how come every question asked about FRANCE invariable ends up with Gluey hijacking it to the UK? And I've edited that.....coz I'm hacked off. "DO THEY DO THIS IN FRANCE?" answer YES. and you wouldn't be able to get rid of them. So, Ya-Bo Shucks To You......1 up to the UK!!![/quote]Risible!I'm accused of generalisation! I rarely post on this forum: many others are far more prolific (Check their post counts): and if I may refresh your memory, the OP quoted a UK news story to kick off the thread.And as to "you wouldn't be able to get rid of them...........": oh yes France could indeed, if it had the wit, since M.le president Sarkozy galvanised his government to insist on implementing the old provable self-sufficiency of income: if you care to remember.Chatting to an English neighbour last week, he went to Paris to the Stade de France for the rugby recently: and recounted how mainly Eastern Europeans had set up a sort of shanty town around the stadium.http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/07/france.sportObviously persecuted misunderstood people again.Perhaps all you nice Liberals can pitch in and accommodate some of them in your nice French houses............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 [quote user="Richard51"]Certainly from a UK perspective (sorry I can't speak from a French perspective as I have no experience) the gypsy population want our social support network but don't want to work and contribute to it, so it's hardly surprising they have a bad reputation. [/quote]My relatives "work & contribute" at least as much as your average gadje. Personally I was employed for thirty years before starting my own business and paying about 10 grand a year in NI for the privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 [quote user="Gluestick"][quote user="velcorin"]A musing.................how come every question asked about FRANCE invariable ends up with Gluey hijacking it to the UK? And I've edited that.....coz I'm hacked off. "DO THEY DO THIS IN FRANCE?" answer YES. and you wouldn't be able to get rid of them. So, Ya-Bo Shucks To You......1 up to the UK!!![/quote]Risible!I'm accused of generalisation! I rarely post on this forum: many others are far more prolific (Check their post counts): and if I may refresh your memory, the OP quoted a UK news story to kick off the thread.And as to "you wouldn't be able to get rid of them...........": oh yes France could indeed, if it had the wit, since M.le president Sarkozy galvanised his government to insist on implementing the old provable self-sufficiency of income: if you care to remember.Chatting to an English neighbour last week, he went to Paris to the Stade de France for the rugby recently: and recounted how mainly Eastern Europeans had set up a sort of shanty town around the stadium.http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/07/france.sportObviously persecuted misunderstood people again.Perhaps all you nice Liberals can pitch in and accommodate some of them in your nice French houses............ [/quote]I do. [:D] That's why I know what I'm talking about. It's my tiny way to help. I would have probably sheltered Jews in the Second World WarWhat is your solution? Build Camps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Norman, you are going too far. Firstly, most should be returned to their home countries and only allowed to return for limited periods if they have employment.As Alfred knows, unfortunately a minority cause the majority to be tarred with the same brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swissie Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 There is nothing 'liberal' about stating facts about the difference between Romas and Romanians- or the fact they have been persecuted for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 The generalisation about British youth was a very accurate description of myself and my potes and pretty much everyone around us in our area during my youth.Now I may have grow up a teeny bit and even become, I am ashamed to admit, a little bit respectable but when I walk along a UK high street at night these days I am shocked at what I see.It has to be said that there are far more nationalities out on the lash and I suppose there is the potential for alcohol fuelled racism that just wasnt there in the 70's and 80's but someone who wants a scrap will always find someone to persecute.Werent the Cheeky Girls Romanian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 [quote user="Richard51"]Her point was that they wouldn't help themselves, even in small ways. She felt that the impact of the Nicolae Ceausescu years had been to remove all concept of self sufficiency, pride, daily structure etc. They couldn't cope with the concept of a working day, routine, organisation, planning, thinking for themselves. They no longer had the capacity to do anything other than 'be done to'..[:D][/quote]There's some truth in this.In 1991 I spent 3+ months living inBucharest (to adopt) and was told this was someone I met who was auniversity teacher. I lived in a small studio flat with a baby andwent out to forage for food daily - not an easy life there. It wasquite possible to see working age people sitting in cafes, bars andrestaurants at any time of the working day. And what was available in the shops ... even for someone with US$ is another story! Romanians areintelligent and generally kind and honest. The Gypsies in Romania areat the bottom of the pecking order, with insufficent education etc tohave much hope of being able to emigrate and better themselves withoutbeing able to claim from over-generous tax-payer-funded benefitsystems. And this is the crux of this problem - few countries canafford to fund a huge influx of unemployable migrants, legal orotherwise. Certainly the UK can't - I suspect that my CountyCouncil (Wiltshire) won't even have enough to repair the frost and snowdamaged roads from the last winter let alone fund the housing and otherneeds of migrants. They are already cutting back on some basic services, and I suspect that some councils may become technically bankrupt in the future. Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 [quote user="pachapapa"]Subsequent to the conquering of Dacia by Trajan the Province had a chequered history. The province was subject to a complex Romanization process and its basic element was the adoption of the Latin language. The Romanians are today the only descendants of the Eastern Roman stock; therefore, the Romanian language is one of the major heirs of the Latin language, together with French, Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese.The language bears more affinity with Italian.[/quote]I got by in Romania and learned a bit of Romanian - but my French did not help me there. And they do have some Slavic influences in the language. It is closely related to Italian, and the Romanians do take pride in their Latin/Roman history. In the museum in Bucharest they have a replica of Trajan's column which depicts the Dacians and the Romans.Older people there spoke some French, but younger, and the more educated people I met spoke English.Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swissie Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Isn't (Swiss) Romanche also a descendant of Eastern Roman?When in UK I went to have my eyes checked - I was looked after by a very bright young woman, with almost perfect English. She was so friendly and knowledgeable - and I explained I was Swiss and wondered where she came from. She was Roumanian- so we chatted about the mountains, etc, and how beautiful I heard a country is. When I picked up my new glasses a few days later, she seemed genuinely pleased to see me - and we hat a chat as the shop wasn't busy. I plucked up the courage to ask her whether she had encountered discrimination and she immediately explained how sad and frustrated she was to be constantly mistaken for a Roma. I told her about this thread on the forum, and she was delighted that I was 'sticking up' for her people. She agreed Romas are persecuted in her country for Centuries - but of course could not condone the maiming of kids for begging, and the thieving that goes on- she agreed that they were pushed into a corner. Hope to meet her again on our next visit to Market Harborough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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