Tax on Planning permission?

[Simon]

Ah, so we're only talking about 26 euros here.

Yours, no longer worried.

[idun]

 As I said, if I had asked once, I had asked a hundred times. The house builder, the notaire's office, the bank where we got our mortgage from, all people used to dealing with people building and the charges and taxes incurred. AND not one of them though fit to mention it. I did not know and it was not for want of asking.

Now in 1983 our 15000ff bill was enormous and I cried when I got it. I really did. I didn't know what it was either, because no one had ever told me. We had already hit an increase in TVA, so we had agreed to have a house built at X FF and then got an extra bill for the difference and that was a lot too. Things were very expensive when we moved to France and houses were especially expensive, and we were pushed to the limit to buy a fairly ordinary place.

Both these bills were very unwelcome. However, it has been mentioned on here before, and I'm sure that looking it up would have been fairly easy these days.

And us, well I am blazing at the moment. UK pensioners come to France and get their pensions and E121's, (now S1) and pay not a penny in SS payments in the UK. We move back to the UK, to a country where residency gives a right to free health care, BUT NOT US! We have to pay 3% on a french state pension and 4% on the french private pension to get health care in the UK, which is free to everyone else!!!!!! And we pay income tax.

You really picked the wrong day to have a moan about this. I have been there done that, paid a lot more and are still being shafted. I am not a happy lady. So there.

[just john]

No simon, apologies for erroneous previous figures, see below

TAUX de TDENS......1 % - €65,500 = €655 payable
TAUX de TDCAUE.....0,3 %  €65,666 =  €197 payable
whatever the figures stand for still eludes me, but calculate out to €852 payable for new dwelling 148sqm

[quote user="idun"] You really picked the wrong day to have a moan about this. I have been there done that, paid a lot more and are still being shafted. I am not a happy lady. So there. [/quote]

Rewind Idun, I'm not moaning, if you reread my post I wondered if the tax is payable before completion, what it is based on and why it is not made clear on application. So there . . . bonne journée [8-|]

[Simon]

Thanks JJ, all understood now!

[tinabee]

If anybody is really interested, here is how I believe the taxes are calculated (TLE, TDENS, TDCAU)

First 80 sq metres of SHON x current rateable value (370 euros in 2011) x percentage voted by local council (e.g. 1% or 0,3% etc)

Between 81 sq metres and 170 sq metres of SHON x current rateable value (541 euros in 2011) x percentage voted by local council

The figures JJ gives, I assume are based on either 2009 or 2010 ratable values, so do not exactly work out with these numbers, but are close enough.

As you can imagine, the rateable values go up each year.

I haven't found a website that gives the rateable value over 170 sq metres, but since you are obliged to employ an architect for a house this big, I would imagine they would know.

[just john]

Thanks Tinabe for your explanation, may I plumb the depths of your knowledge further; presumably this is a one off payment in lieu of planning application costs, but how does it work afterwards, especially if the site remains undeveloped, does it change the tax fonciere going forward? Are there any other potential future charges?[8-)] 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="tinabee"]

If anybody is really interested, here is how I believe the taxes are calculated (TLE, TDENS, TDCAU)

First 80 sq metres of SHON x current rateable value (370 euros in 2011) x percentage voted by local council (e.g. 1% or 0,3% etc)

Between 81 sq metres and 170 sq metres of SHON x current rateable value (541 euros in 2011) x percentage voted by local council

The figures JJ gives, I assume are based on either 2009 or 2010 ratable values, so do not exactly work out with these numbers, but are close enough.

As you can imagine, the rateable values go up each year.

I haven't found a website that gives the rateable value over 170 sq metres, but since you are obliged to employ an architect for a house this big, I would imagine they would know.

[/quote]

€/M2 2009: Apply Category 7.

> 170 M2

7

Partie des locaux à usage d’habitation principale et leurs annexes, autres que ceux entrant dans les 2° et 4° catégories et dont la SHON excède 170m². Same rate as a Residence Secondaire and the Catch-all "autres constructions".

672.00

[Bobdude]

Correct me if I am wrong - but for 'planning permission' I presume we are talking about 'Permis de Construire' and the tax you are discussing is not applicable to 'Declaration de Travaux'?

[Daft Doctor]

Just looked up our chosen destination in Haute Savoie and the total planning taxes for a new build 150 sqm chalet would be 4,341 euros @ 2009 rates. That would be a horrible shock if you weren't prepared for it. Now of course I am, thanks to this forum. Forewarned is certainly forearmed!!

[idun]

And no one tells you about this tax.

 Also, if 'you' are getting somewhere built, ie you buy land and get a builder to build for you as opposed to buying and getting keys in hand. You will need a special insurance during the build. Cannot remember what it is called now, but it has been discussed in the past.

[Daft Doctor]

Thanks for that idun, that's quite different from the UK, where the contractor normally is the one required to obtain insurance during the construction and the owner only takes responsibility at handover.  

[idun]

L'assurance dommage ouvrage, that is what it is called and is obligatory, although not everyone knows or takes it out.

Did you also know that some builders do not do the foundations for new builds, you have to find someone else to do them.

Did you know that drains are often not dug, some builders do not include guttering and drain pipes.

Read every last bit of the fine print. As what you expect to be there and what they are offering can be radically different.

And some builders do every last thing, then you find yourself without a fosse septique anyway.[:)]

 

Even sans ordinateur, all this is possible to do and find out, and as I always say, do your own research about everything and shop around.