Titre de sejour (Yes, again)

[Cathar Tours]

Just as a matter of interest what will happen in 2019/20 when the UK has left the EU? From what I read the only one you can apply for at present is as an EU citizen which you won't be when the UK has left and then it will become worthless. Won't you then have to do the whole thing again but as a non EU citizen?

[Un autre Gallois]

I think the problem with lots of applicants is that (a)they do not understand what is being asked for, why on earth would you make a joint application/dossier when the instructions are so clear that the application is "individuelle" (b) which Prefecture office they have to go to conduct their business is clearly described, but they choose to go elsewhere, etc. etc. It's quite simple - supply the information requested to the correct prefecture and get on with life.

Un Autre G

[NormanH]

[quote user="Cathar Tours"]Just as a matter of interest what will happen in 2019/20 when the UK has left the EU? From what I read the only one you can apply for at present is as an EU citizen which you won't be when the UK has left and then it will become worthless. Won't you then have to do the whole thing again but as a non EU citizen?[/quote]

1) where is it stated that a 'titre de séjour permanant' will become worthless? I am not saying it won't , but as you are saying it will I  am asking for the evidence for your assertion.

2) If it is necessary to do it again as a no- EU citizen, or apply for French nationality then I will do so. 

In either case I can't see that the fact I have had a carte de séjour for over 20 years would be a hindrance.

[Un autre Gallois]

Also, some Prefectures require translated documents, while other are not so pernickety - one size doesn't fit all. It's not a universal fit (the same applies to applications for French driving licences - some prefectures are more amenable than others.

[Cathar Tours]

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="Cathar Tours"]Just as a matter of interest what will happen in 2019/20 when the UK has left the EU? From what I read the only one you can apply for at present is as an EU citizen which you won't be when the UK has left and then it will become worthless. Won't you then have to do the whole thing again but as a non EU citizen?[/quote]

1) where is it stated that a 'titre de séjour permanant' will become worthless? I am not saying it won't , but as you are saying it will I  am asking for the evidence for your assertion.

2) If it is necessary to do it again as a no- EU citizen, or apply for French nationality then I will do so. 

In either case I can't see that the fact I have had a carte de séjour for over 20 years would be a hindrance.

[/quote]

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/N110

The section marked

Carte de séjour pour Européen

As far as I understand it but correct me if I am wrong (because I don't speak French and use Google to translate) it is for EU nationals only which you are at present. When you stop being one this won't cover you and Le Pen might throw you out, who knows? A lot can change in 20 years and the future is unknown which is why I asked. It was a question if you look, it did have a "?" on the end which most people understand as a question and not a statement.

If the EU does decide to offer EU citizenship you may not have a problem, you can apply for that. If you have an Irish grandparent(s) get an Irish passport alternatively get a proper job (with an employer) and get a Blue Card when the UK leaves.

The problem facing my parents and perhaps many others who have retired in France is the possible lose of their health cover via the S1 and I am not sure how having a Carte de Séjour will overcome that, perhaps you know? Have to wait and see I guess.

[Chancer]

The problem facing my parents and perhaps many others who have retired in France is the possible lose of their health cover via the S1

 

The worst that would happen is that they would have to pay for their healthcare from their retirement income like any retired French person or others such as Norman who are  penalised for having worked in France.

[NormanH]

As Chancer implies there is no reason to suppose anyone will lose health cover just because the UK isn't in the EU.

Many people who aren't from EU countries, such as North Africans or North Americans have heath cover.

What may change are the funding arrangements.

At the moment UK pensioners are paid for by the UK under the European SI system.

It may be the case (but no-one yet knows) that they would have to contribute to the French system they are using out of their income instead  of being funded by the UK taxpayer.

That is not the same as the loss of health cover.

[Cathar Tours]

Are you seriously saying that when you retire in France you loose your healthcare cover even when your French. I understood you hade to carry on paying for a mutual but the other 80% or whatever that is normally covered is lost? Glad I don't live there then.

If Norman has left himself in a position where he has to pay for all his healthcare then he really has made a very large error somewhere.

[NormanH]

You clearly understand so very little of the systems referred to here that I am at a loss as to understand what you feel you can usefully contribute.

[Cathar Tours]

[quote user="NormanH"]You clearly understand so very little of the systems referred to here that I am at a loss as to understand what you feel you can usefully contribute.

[/quote]

Please, please go back and read my post. I was asking a couple of questions. I was not looking to contribute by offering advice because I was asking a question. They are two totally different things.

Perhaps this is the type of forum where people are not supposed to ask questions, that might be why it only appears to have a couple of dozen active members.

[Un autre Gallois]

My understanding (might be wrong!!) is that the reciprocal health arrangements between France and the UK are outside any arrangements embodied in European law. Those arrangements can remain in place/be changed notwithstanding any Brexit cartwheels.

[Cathar Tours]

[quote user="Un autre Gallois"]My understanding (might be wrong!!) is that the reciprocal health arrangements between France and the UK are outside any arrangements embodied in European law. Those arrangements can remain in place/be changed notwithstanding any Brexit cartwheels.[/quote]

If correct that could be very helpful to many people.

[Un autre Gallois]

Off topic, but Norman can fend for himself, no doubt about that! Have you not heard of ALD with its re-imbursement scale?

[idun]

I am now very confused by some of these posts.

Cathar tours, ask away, but remember, just about every last bit of information is at the tip of your fingers, literally, a click away these days, and personally I always check on official sources web sites, or call them, about any info I glean on here that pertains to me.

And what if someone misinforms you, maybe because what has 'happened' to them isn't how things usually work???? Because there are foncionnaires who interpret the rules in their own sweet way and will have no truck with doing things another way.

Reciprocal health care agreements, well, sort of?

The EHIC card is for specific use and all the regulations pertaining to that are well documented on the internet, including the exceptions.

Could someone british just move to France under retirement age and simply get health care, no, they would not be covered just like that. All on the servicepublic.fr web site.

I am still confused by quite a lot of the previous posts[8-)]

[idun]

French pensioners make a contribution from their pensions which contributes towards their health care, and then they still need to pay for a costly mutuelle, and the cover one gets declines as prices go up, so friends tell me. People cannot just take out a mutuel on it's own,because being in state health care and mutuellists are linked. They are different to health insurance policies.

Until last year we were paying a contribution from the french pension for our UK health care.[8-|]

[NormanH]

[quote user="Cathar Tours"][quote user="NormanH"]You clearly understand so very little of the systems referred to here that I am at a loss as to understand what you feel you can usefully contribute.

[/quote]

Please, please go back and read my post. I was asking a couple of questions. I was not looking to contribute by offering advice because I was asking a question. They are two totally different things.

Perhaps this is the type of forum where people are not supposed to ask questions, that might be why it only appears to have a couple of dozen active members.[/quote]

Read back through the thread. You will see that questions are welcomed and answered as far as we can.

Your 2 questions:

1)Just as a matter of interest what will happen in 2019/20 when the UK has

left the EU? From what I read the only one you can apply for at present

is as an EU citizen which you won't be when the UK has left and then it

will become worthless. Won't you then have to do the whole thing again

but as a non EU citizen?

I answered

If it is necessary to do it again as a no- EU citizen, or apply for French nationality then I will do so. 

In either case I can't see that the fact I have had a carte de séjour for over 20 years would be a hindrance.

In addition it will be an advantage if I have to show the length of time I have been legally resident in France

Contrast that with the potential chaos in the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/18/eu-citizens-right-to-stay-britain-chaos

2) The second question

The problem facing my parents and perhaps many others who have retired

in France is the possible lose of their health cover via the S1 and I am

not sure how having a Carte de Séjour will overcome that, perhaps you

know?

My answer:

As Chancer implies there is no reason to suppose

anyone will lose health cover just because the UK isn't in the EU.

Many people who aren't from EU countries, such as North Africans or North Americans have heath cover.

What may change are the funding arrangements.

At the moment UK pensioners are paid for by the UK under the European SI system.

It may be

the case (but no-one yet knows) that they would have to contribute to

the French system they are using out of their income instead  of being

funded by the UK taxpayer.

That is not the same as the loss of health cover.

I would add to that that having a Carte de séjour has nothing to do with health cover, but if there is no right reside in the country the question of health cover doesn't exist

As far as the latest red herring "My understanding (might be wrong!!) is that the reciprocal health

arrangements between France and the UK are outside any arrangements

embodied in European law...

.The arrangements for the Grandparents of CT are the S1 system which is a European one.  British nationals who have health cover by virtue of working or running a business or paying cotisations on their income are directly in contact with the French system and so they are not concerned.

[CeeJay]

Gardengirl,

Just arrived back from NZ and found cards in the postbox informing us that the Titres were read to collect.

Went to Montpellier Prefecture, queued up to get a numbered ticket to take to another guichet, handed over card and passport and was given the Titre de Sejour 10year permanent.

When you get to that stage it is best if you check the web site of the relevant Prefecture as there are different collection times for different requests, e.g. we could only go between 1.30 and 3.00pm.

[mint]

Well done!  And thank you for posting about this.  Makes me feel better about treading a path that you have gone down so recently[:)]

Nice welcoming home present for you, emphasis being on "home"!  I am wishing that it will be home for me, OH and our little dog as well very soon.........

[NormanH]

[quote user="CeeJay"]Gardengirl,

Just arrived back from NZ and found cards in the postbox informing us that the Titres were read to collect.

Went to Montpellier Prefecture, queued up to get a numbered ticket to take to another guichet, handed over card and passport and was given the Titre de Sejour 10year permanent.

When you get to that stage it is best if you check the web site of the relevant Prefecture as there are different collection times for different requests, e.g. we could only go between 1.30 and 3.00pm.[/quote]

Pleased that you have got them now.

[Gardengirl]

Ceejay, it's good to hear that your 'welcome home' cards were waiting for you. Thank you for your information.

Mint, I hope it all happens for you 3 before too long.

[idun]

[quote user="Gardengirl "]Ceejay, did it all end happily after?

We're thinking we might apply as a couple of things would seem to work better with them, just feeling a bit daunted by the list of items required - do I really have the strength to get started on the paper trail............[/quote]

GG I did mention it before, but I did not think that you were french residents, are you ??? as as far as I am aware, this is strictly a sort of residents permit and you would not be able to get them unless you move to France.

[Jo]

My S1 was withdrawn on the death of my husband as I am not of retirement age. My health cover is now provided by France, for which I contribute 8% of my income.

This will cease when I hit retirement age and will then be covered by an S1 from uk again......HA!! ...if they still exist!!

It was relatively easy to do and I hadn't been here the magical five years when he died.

[Cathar Tours]

If the UK is part of the EU when you get to retirement age then yes until such times (technically) as the UK leaves the EU.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/social-security-forms/index_en.htm

However the first part of the Art. 50 negotiations is to do with EU citizens in the UK keeping their rights and therefore logically this would be reciplical. However in anything I have read it says to keep existing rights which seems to indicate that those who already have them keep them but those that don't won't. How that pans out in reality is anyone's guess and down to individual speculation.

[EuroTrash]

"the first part of the Art. 50 negotiations is to do with EU citizens in the UK keeping their rights and therefore logically this would be reciplical. However in anything I have read it says to keep existing rights which seems to indicate that those who already have them keep them but those that don't won't. How that pans out in reality is anyone's guess and down to individual speculation."

Well aren't these the negotiations that May said she was expecting to have a deal agreed on by June, and the EU said she was deluded because it will take a lot longer than that to work out the details?

[Cathar Tours]

Exactly right there which is why I mentioned reality.

It does appear that both sides want this issue addressed and at the beginning of the negotiations. The thing that worries me about May is she could be thinking that she wants to hold out on this issue as a bargaining "chip" for something else. I get the feeling she does not give a toss about Expats living in the EU. On the other hand it is the EU that sets out the format and agenda for the negotiations and not her.

That's my personal take on the situation and it may pan out quite differently, who knows and until the agenda is made public it is, as I said, just speculation. Yet on the other hand what we have read so far may be right as it seems the EU has more leaks than a colander.