Renovation Security? gsm burglar/fire alarm

[just john]

I am looking for helpful advice regarding reviewing my maison secondaire security, especially since having had two break-ins now, the first where they must have had a furniture wagon to remove my furniture and the second recently where they had forced entry leaving shutters open and then returned the following day when the shutters had been left open for that time, fortunately my neighbour disturbed them on his way to fix the shutters and they left as far as I can tell empty-handed, not much of value anyway; (my neighbour is about a quarter of a K away and is not passing daily). The house is mid renovation so does not have a telephone connected but a family electrician recommends using a GSM burglar/fire alarm which as well sounding an intruder alarm has the facility to dial a couple of numbers to report fire or intruder. They are about twice the price of a normal alarm, so I want to be sure that they are worth the extra. Has anyone any experience of these?

[Kevo]

Most panels have some sort of text messaging facility, its just the module that may cost extra, depending on what type of signalling path you use ie PSTN GPRS etc.

Cheers

Kevo...

[Polly]

I have no faith in any type of burglar alarm system for remote rural properties whatsoever.

Firstly, a pro will know how to de-activate it

Secondly, chances are no-one will here a siren.

Thirdly, if you go posh and you have telesurveillance which shows you on your pc that someone is at the property, or less posh it sends you a text, what, pray are you going to do about it if you're in Taunton, Treviso or Timbuctoo? Call your caretakers or neighbours, who (a) might not be in and (b) if they have any sense are not going to turn up and risk having their heads kicked in? Call the police? ha! They could take hours to arrive, and won't give you high priority. Have it linked to a security firm? Helllooo, we're talking rural France here, not posh villa-land on the Cote d'Azur.

Sorry, I don't have any magic solutions - there aren't any

[Department71]

We are in southern Burgundy and we have French neighbours down the road who live near Eurodisney but have a second home not far from us. One night at home near Eurodisney they had the telephone go at about 12.30am, it was their alarm phoning them to say they are are have a break-in at their second home, they phoned the local police, got dressed and drove down the 180+ miles to their house, when they arrived the police hadn't even got there, and the siren outside the house was silent, expanded foam had been sprayed into the unit to silence it.

No if the bugg**s want to get in they will, the only thing you can do is make it awkward for them. One of the locks on our door is British made (not a cheap yale or eurolock) , my theory is they know all about locks sold in France, but a British one may cause them to go elsewhere, at least the opportunist ones  Well it's worh a try.

Steve

[dave21478]

I would agree with Polly on this.

Unless you have an able-bodied neighbour who is close enough by to hear the siren on a stormy night, (or willing to be telephoned) and whom you trust enough to leave a set of keys and alarm fob/code and to act accordingly in your absence, then its a pointless expense.

I went through a phase of considering upping the security of my front door (increased pikey activity here lately) but really there is little point. ok it might put off an opportunist, but anyone determined would just force their way in safe in the knowledge that there is nobody close enough to hear anything. Hell, they could cut their way in with a chainsaw without disturbing anyone!

hmm, the "P" word for referring to our caravan-dwelling, tarmac drive laying friends is censored by the forum!

[just john]

Thanks for all your replies,

Cheers Kevo;... a bit more explanation would be good, ideally I'm looking for a plug & play option, so any recommendations would be good.

Poll; It's not that remote a rural property, its near the road, I can see and hear neighbours nearby; I do have faith in a burglar alarm system to put off the amateur, slow the pro and let the neighbours know. There's nothing for a pro to make it worthwhile, to de-activate anyway. As for sirens well, I have been in a property where the alarm noise pulsating inside your head was enough to seriously drive you out. Putting another siren on the chimney (8 metres up) slows down anyone's access. Filling a White Van with furniture takes more than a few minutes.

Steve; we have other neighbours down the road not far from us. One day they had a break-in, no alarm, back of the house not visible from the road, so despite people driving by, they got in, found nothing worth stealing, so trashed the place for a laugh, smashed through walls, doors smashed, jars of food over the floor, smashed basins, turned the taps on etc. Mindless. They've now spent a fortune renovating and protecting including an alarm but I'm not sure they'll get over it. So yes the pie lock-openers might get in, the only thing I can do is make it awkward for them.
My door/shutter locks are British made (£89), so they avoided them, jemmied open the new window shutters (standard plastic catches) put a brick into the new hardwood window frame busting it and internal locks and bolts. I've been told that the modus operandi now is for them to break in and leave a shutter open, walk through the house to appraise it's value and leave. They return to see if the shutters have been closed before deciding to spend time at the property to empty it. That bothers me.

Dave
I am fortunate to have a neighbour who is extremely able-bodied (bucheron) and helps around when I need, just as keen to ensure ''they'' get the message that's it not worth it; Last time all it took was for his quatre quatre to appear outside.

So . . . whatever I can do to avoid the possible damage for a few hundred squids I will, all it takes for stuff to happen is for you to do nothing, otherwise why shouldn't they come back.

 

[Chancer]

My first business was a burglar alarm company in the 1990's, things have moved on a lot since then, not always for the better, but its fair to say that I have 7 years experience 15 years out of date [:D]

What shocks me is to see just how poor the security industry is here in France, non existant would be a better word, the equipment they use I would have rejected 20 years ago and as for the prices [:-))]

I put a tempoary  alarm in straight away and am still using it, it only really serves as a visual deterrent, its quite amazing to hear the gossip about what my clever hi-tech system does, little do they know I built it in 1992 to be able to install instantly in high risk situations or after a burglary. in 6 years I have never seen another bellbox even on commercial premises.

I had long thought that central monitoring stations did not exist in France and that even if the Police were called their response would be as others have illustrated, when I installed monitored systems the Police had a 5 minute response target and most of the time they achieved it.

I have seen a few reports on the TV where burglars have cleared out premises peacefully over the whole weekend after disabling the alarm system, if they had a proper monitored system even an installer would not be able to do this if the alarm was set. I remain convinced that Police call out as we know it does not exist in France, around here the burglars are the only guys motivated enough to work between 12.00 and 14.00, the Netto not 500m from my house was cleared out only last week, the shutters were down when I went there at 14.30 and when I tried again at 15.30 ish plod had just arrived looking well fed and bien arrosée.

The best one I saw on the TV only a week or so ago, the bandits had broken into a large hypermarket on a Sunday afternoon, the safe was locked down but the hypermarket used one of those vacuum cash tube thingies to send the money from the tills to the safe, the robbers simply cut into the ducting and used a powerfull vacuum cleaner to hoover out the contents of the safe, it was reported to be a Dyson!

The M.O. was well known to the Gendarmerie who admitted  they have already carried out many other identical robberies, the whole thing just leaves me gob-smacked, how can a country be so behind the times in matters of security? No wonder it is such a paradise for fraudsters of all types.

[Gluestick]

I also had involvement in the security biz some years ago as a prime mover and investor.

If you have some trusted friend nearby, then a decent alarm can have a significant  deterrent value.

The dialer can communicate to your friend, then you and also send text messages. A good system allows you to call it back and "Listen in" to your remote house.

I would suggest you evaluate a basic wireless system with the capacity to add "Hard-Wired" extra functions and facilities.

One excellent manufacturer is Everspring, Taiwan: see here:

These are "Re-Badged" all over the World: for example, in France they are sold by an outfit on the Cote D'Azur called Eden.

Eden:

Eden kit is distributed in France by Conrad Electronics: See here:

Precisely the same kit is sold in the UK by Friedland (Now part of Honeywell) who make door bells and etc.

In this case the alarms are called "Response" alarms. And, far cheaper than Eden!

Here:

However, the best source, I believe (In UK) are Rapid Electronics.

See here:

However, look around: the response kits are sold by Argos, Amazon and many others.

The beauty of this system is its freedom from false alerts and the ability to add extra bits simply: easy for a self-install, too.

To add a GSM Dialer, then simply buy the dialer  as a Standalone unit and hardwire it into the alarm console.

One such as this, e.g.

See here:

[Chancer]

As I said, 7 years experience, honky tonk years out of date but......................................

I would never touch a wireless system, they may well have improved their reliability since then but cannot have overcome the basic deficiency of being battery powered and not constantly monitoring the secured area with the exception of magnetic reed switch door contacts which use no power in passive mode.

[Gluestick]

JRC: modern PIRs (Passive Infra Red Detectors), which are now pretty ubiquitous,are free from random trips (from such as rising sudden thermal currents etc), endure at least One Year with a good (e.g. Duracell) Alkaline Cell.

Their quiescent current consumption in standby mode is microscopic.

Furthermore, digital wireless systems are much more robust and error free than their earlier analogue counterparts.

My own earlier experience was with US Linear Alert Systems: excellent state-of-the-art then, but analogue and subject to spurious trips.

Interesting to me that for a couple of years I was the essential contact for a chum's fully hardwired NACOS house system (He was spending most of his time abroad): I suffered a series of phone calls (Usually at 2 or 3 AM; naturally!), from the Central Station; attended the scene with the Central Station's call out guy and the police.

All false alerts!

I even had to explain to the service engineers who called the next day (I had to attend this too as the essential keyholder), why I suspected the system was tripping: mains spikes; as there was no filter between the mains and the PSU module!!!

And this was a major UK supplier...............

Their "Explanations" were most interesting.

Spiders in the house was a popular one: tripping their hard-wired PIRs; for example.

Durghhhh!

[:-))]

[Théière]

[quote user="Chancer"]

My first business was a burglar alarm company in the 1990's, things have moved on a lot since then, not always for the better, but its fair to say that I have 7 years experience 15 years out of date [:D]

What shocks me is to see just how poor the security industry is here in France, non existant would be a better word, the equipment they use I would have rejected 20 years ago and as for the prices [:-))]

[/quote]

You haven't got a garage full of Picasso's by chance?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d0512528-fbea-11df-b7e9-00144feab49a.html#axzz16iK4oprE

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Théière"][quote user="Chancer"]

My first business was a burglar alarm company in the 1990's, things have moved on a lot since then, not always for the better, but its fair to say that I have 7 years experience 15 years out of date [:D]

What shocks me is to see just how poor the security industry is here in France, non existant would be a better word, the equipment they use I would have rejected 20 years ago and as for the prices [:-))]

[/quote]

You haven't got a garage full of Picasso's by chance?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d0512528-fbea-11df-b7e9-00144feab49a.html#axzz16iHefVc0

[/quote]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/d0512528-fbea-11df-b7e9-00144feab49a,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fd0512528-fbea-11df-b7e9-00144feab49a.html&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.completefrance.com%2Fcs%2Fforums%2F2%2F2356615%2FShowPost.aspx#axzz16iI5jMz5

[Chancer]

I havnt read the link but heard about it on the news, I was just too damned honest for my own good and I had some pretty minted customers including a royal family.

I once while doing my best as always to conceal the cables found a couple of gold rings and a half hunter watch resting on some battens making up the internal framing of a fitted wardrobe, they were completely concealed from view unless you were contorted inside like I was, I had just caught a glint of soemthing in the crner of my eye. The house had recently been burgled as was often the case.

I showed them to the lady of the house who was completely overwhelmed, the rings were her late mothers and the watch handed down from her grandfather, she had thought that they had been taken along with the other items during the burglary.

Husband comes home from work and she gives him the joyous news, I think to myself  "you are in for a drink here Chancer" but not a bit of it, he was incandescent with rage and demanded to know what I was doing poking about in their wardrobe and finding things that were of no concern to me.

Before I could explain his wife gave him the biggest Sussex sideswipe that I have ever seen, called him a barstard, burst into tears and said she wanted a divorce, it slowly dawned on me what he was up to and that I had foiled his plans, she later told me that it was the last straw for her and she was certain that she would not have seen her family heirlooms again, the insurance money would have been no comfort to her, not that he would have given ot to her.

Afterwards I pondered, what if?.................................

What would or could he have said if the jewellery supposed already stolen had found its way into my toolbox that day?

I had no regrets though after seei the look of joy on her face even if he did deserve to be tucked up.

I think Picasso's Electrician/alarm installer has got more front than Margate!

[Kevo]

Hi Just John. There are many products on the market but i would suggest you use a more professional panel and equipment such as Texecom Premier (which we use) If you have the equipment already then you could connect a GSM module to it which would text to a few numbers for about £200ish, you would need to buy a sim card. Pay as you go or similar. Wireless is an option but more expensive and less choice of detection as i believe a dual technology detector would be better for an old draughty building.

Take a look here. http://www.texe.com/

Regards

Kevo...

[Polly]

I wish you well, Just John (and any other second home owners listening in).

I posted based on my 20 years experience in the management of second homes in France, for absentee owners.

If thieves want to get in, they will.

If they have been in once, they will be back in again after you have re-stocked with new TV, cutlery, dishwasher, beds, lawnmower or whatever. They are not stupid, they know what they are after and when your neighbours (large and with big fierce dogs or not) are in or out having lunch at the village hall or hunting or whatever.

Prior to taking your stuff they will have worked out how to get in quietly and quickly, so yes, anything you can do to dissuade them is useful. Have you nailed your roof down?

If the doors and shutters are difficult to open, access via the roof may be easier, then they open up from the inside. This will all be done without the tell-tale big van around, they will be on foot, car parked up somewhere nearby out of sight. Their children may well be involved, so that as small an opening as possible is made. The gate padlock will have been sussed. All will be left looking OK to a casual visitor driving by, only a detailed house check would show up what has been done.

Putting up security cameras on the outside, and posh burglar alarms may be a deterrent but they also say 'whoa, boys, this is worth getting into, there must be something worth nicking here'.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Kevo"] you would need to buy a sim card. Pay as you go or similar. [/quote]

Not forgetting of course, that French Pay and Go SIM cards expire if not used pretty quickly........

[pachapapa]

Good post Polly;

Houses with all internal doors locked....holes to roof space on both sides of door.....a large house isolated some 1/2 a mile from our hamlet was burgled 10 years ago.....the same night as the Telethon.

In a recent thread it was overlooked that already made up shutters purchased at the local grande espace will have 10 mill deformed re-bar pressed through 10 mill predrilled holes in the boards.....of course the nominal 10 mill re-bar has a total external diameter of 11 mill on the deformation.....they fit rather snugly.

[just john]

Thanks Kevo & Gluey for your recommendations and I will be checking them out.

 Poll
I understand where you're coming from but what do you do? lay back and think of France?,
I'm pretty confidant that the first break-in was an inside job after some French builders finished work, and the second one was some opportunist pie lockopeners that seem to be busy checking out unattended maison secondaires lately; apparently they find them easy to identify and easy pickings; would that I had the time to set up a Home Alone scenario I especially like the pipe and the transformer.
I have a new roof with Composite Plasterboard/Insulation panels which are strong enough to walk on and wouldn't be quick to get through, I don't intend to make it like Fort Knox either after all there's no gold, and nor do I intend to advertise the burglar alarm, ideally I'd like their vehicle registrations and face photos (Gendarmes weren't interested, unless you have all this and photographs of everything on the premises ) but putting up security cameras on the outside, would probably be the single most expensive thing on the premises, especially since an acquaintance had this done only to discover that the resultant video was not good enough to identify the vehicle reg or faces. So I'll settle for a lot of noise when an intruder breaks in and hopefully that will send them off and one of the neighbours will get the reg.

Gluey
One of the Amazon Autodial Alarm system has a SIM card, not that I know how it is charged but I'm not usually away for more than three months anyway.

Pachapapa
I bought  .lapeyre. fenetre complete window kits which come with made up shutters with re-bar which fits rather snugly, however the internal shutter locks supplied look traditional but are now plastic, and the bolts supplied for the hinges had crossheads, which makes it really easy to fit (and unscrew from outside...) all changed now.

Already have good neighbours and friends who drop by weekly but any alternative suggestions welcome.

 

 

[pachapapa]

Fitting a couple of barres de sécurité per volet is cheap; I bought 4 but never fitted. I cant find a diagram but similar in principle to image below except round pipe with a central solid round bar, secured into round plate in wall. When not in use they sit upwards vertically against the walls.

[IMG]http://protectvol.online.fr/renf-volet-bois.gif[/IMG]