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Call a general election to legitimise his illegitimate PMship for starters.

The EU have already said that they would extend the Oct 31st date in those circumstances.

Unfortunately with his rabid 'do or die' leave on Oct 31st mantra he's painted himself into a corner infinitely tighter than May's from which there is no escape except total humiliation hopefully followed by resignation and to go down in history as the shortest serving PM ever - as well as probably the least legitimate.

I can scarcely imagine the schadenfreude I will rejoice in if he's brought to heel and is forced to  extend yet again.

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Don't think that self-serving, power hungry, shambles of a politician will  ever do that, Norman.

Here is a petition you, and others, might like to sign though I am not sure it will do any good.  But at least it will give you something to do with your hands other than sitting on them?


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A Prime Minister worthy of the title would not have engineered the situation to get himself into that role. He realised that staying as a Remainer was never going to get him into No 10 as he would not have stood out from the pack; he had to make use of his status as a controversial figure with celebrity appeal. Fighting for Brexit was his best chance, whether or not he saw it as the right thing to do for the country (which frankly did not come into the equation). A brief examination of Johnson's background will show that he has lied and changed position all through his career to get what he wanted.

So in that sense, Wooly, you are right - what else could he have done? - but only in the sense of satisfying his own ego and ambition, rather than acting in the best interests of the nation.
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Regardless of what we think of Mr Johnson, surely, as PM, he had to get the Brexit issue over the line. Faced with a hopelessly divided Parliament with a mischief making Speaker, tiny majority and dodgy partners, he had no choice but to force the issue. A general election would have been a distraction, as would be a caretaker PM?

What we are seeing is a weakness in the UK Constitution.

Though it is probably a tactic to put pressure on the Europeans to negotiate again.

Dumping Article 50 would have brought riots onto the streets, rather as Momentum is planning to try and do, even targetting MPs homes. Unforgivable in my mind.

I am in UK at the moment for a few days and find the country fed up and nerveux.

Interestingly, to get his legislation through, Macron also bypassed his parliament, deemed too obstructive even with his majority.

Alan, only fanatics do not change their views viz Franco, Corbyn. Churchill even changed parties.
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"Dumping Article 50 would have brought riots onto the streets" and this is exactly what SHOULD be happening in response to Johnson's power grab.

He is un-elected and a majority of the country do not want the hard Brexit he is trying to force through.

At least there should be massive displays of passive resistance. If there were any decent Tories left (an oxymoron I know) they would already have resigned the whip and brought the government down.

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  Add to that that John Major is joining 'gina' in a legal action against the prorogation and HE did the bloody same himself when he was in charge in 1997.

Give me strength, I am sick sick sick to death of it all.

And if anyone DARES say that this is anti democratic, then 'gina' and her crew obviously care nothing of democracy and the will of the majority.

Re Boris's election, that is the system, that is how they all do it. That his how it is, we have had Thatcher then Major without an  election, and Blair then Brown without an election. And that is just the last 'few' years. Why are people kicking off about that????

As I said, sick sick sick.

And this keyboard, well, it bounces letters and text, or maybe it is the computer, no idea, and being able to log on now is a bit of a miracle.

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"democracy and the will of the majority."

The problem is that no-one knows what the will of the majority now is.
That is why there are proposals for either a referendum to confirm the terms of Brexit (which were not made clear in 2016) or a GE to confirm the legitimacy of the present Government.

If these were held and went against my personal view I would have no problem accepting the result.

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See, Norman, it's not just the politicians who keep contradicting themselves. In your previous post, you said that "a majority of the country do not want the hard Brexit...etc" and it crossed my mind to enquire how you knew.

Now you say that no-one knows what the will of the majority is.

On your more recent point I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I'm inclined to see parliament as a microcosm of the confusion and disparity that exists UK-wide. And you can bet the farm that any new referendum or whatever will be challenged by any group who don't consider that the "right" questions (according to their own personal agenda) have been asked. That's just one of the myriad problems with asking again.

Worrying is today's reported apparent rise in popularity of the Boris party. Something which tends to suggest that the "OFFS just get on with it" brigade are gaining traction.
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NormanH, I don't necessary support the same political party as you (in fact, I am pretty sure I don't from your previous comments on this forum, and though I always vote I try otherwise to keep out of political discussions), BUT I have to say I totally concur and agree with your last two comments on this post.  There has to be some closure on this madness, but which ever way it falls, and I presume most on this forum do not want to leave the EU, we would all be grateful to know what is gong to happen soonest.  I am pretty sure that proroguing Parliament is not the only way forward, and that other options, including a GE given the parlous state of the present almost-non-majority-government would be the sensible if not liked by them way forward.  And the EU have already said that they would extend for that reason.  Another referendum, well yes, if there was a sensible majority put on it, but given the confused thinking and that referenda are not the UK's normally way of chosing, it would be my least preferred of your two options above.

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Much as I dislike crude labelling of people, I think that "Boris the Dictator" might not be too out inaccurate.

I have read that he intends to stop all Tories, who side with opposition MPs to derail his no-deal plans, from taking part in the next GE.  So it will be a choice for some:  conscience and personal conviction vs party and toeing the line.

Could this be true and is he able to do that?  I am a bit hazy on all this political stuff when it gets to parts that the Carlsberg can't reach!

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Swiss is a direct democracy whereas UK is a parliamentary democracy.

When all is said and done remember that the referendum was only advisory and the public opinion at that time.

Very bizarre when farrage was complaining at the EU when the new lady was elected by a similar majority to the leave "landslide"!

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[quote user="mint"]I am a bit hazy on all this political stuff when it gets to parts that the Carlsberg can't reach!


I like that.

Seriously though, some one needs to get a grip. It's now 3 years + since the referendum took place and apart from three rejections by the HoC of a negotiated deal the situation has not progressed but remains stagnant. MP's want more time to debate?? Ffs, you've had 3 years.

Mp's should have done what they are elected and paid to do in the first place and not passed the decision making process over to the British public. If, when the result of that decision was returned so many of them hadn't balked at the outcome and hadn't adapted a ' we don't like or agree with your decision so we will attempt to derail it' the country would not be where it is today.

Given the decision was to leave the EU, BJ has now taken the initiative to inform Brussels that he is prepared to leave on 31st Oct whatever, with or without a deal. To stand any chance of getting both sides back to the negotiating table requires Brussels to accept BJ's proposal and the HoC to cease this unstabling rancour towards the eletorate and to show some form of solidarity.

Perhaps, in future, the HoC will think twice before delegating its own responsibilities.

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My pennies worth?

Whatever happens on the 31st it will not be 'over with'. If the UK drives itself into the brick wall they will still have to pick up the mess afterwards and go back to the EU to negotiate a whole raft of things for which there is not, at the moment, any hope of an agreement on. If some changes are agreed to the WA they still have to get through parliament and they will never be enough to satisfy the Nigel Farage ERG group, who actually want the UK to crash out.

There is no solution to the British border in Ireland.. there has to be one if the UK is trading on WTO terms under WTO rules, and however light it is , a return to the days of the troubles is inevitable. However the most likely conclusion from this an Ireland wide referendum and a united Ireland.

So whatever you think of Johnson and Cummings, he will solve nothing because the only thing he has that TM didn't have is a set of testicles, and they will get him nowhere.. So sorry UK, or what will be left of it.. this is set to run and run for several more years until it finally runs out of steam.

Even a general election won't solve it at the moment.

To add. the port of Calais is going to trial it's new immigration controls for a month as a pilot to see if they work.. so importers should at least be able to see what paper work they will need to follow in order to bring things into the UK after 31st October, and we should get an idea of potential delays.
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