Immigration

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Tressy"][quote user="Gluestick"]

Bearing in mind the information is being provided on a website, two dedicated pages are provided - with advice on how to use firstly a mouse and second, a keyboard.

A moment's clarity of focus might, perhaps have allowed the site authors to latch on to the fact that if someone cannot use either, then it's very doubtful they could navigate the site and learn how to operate a PC![/quote]

I don't understand your apparent objection to this. [/quote]

No objection, Tres: I was merely pointing out logical reality and in all probability, excising my cynical ire about bureacrats who seem to live on a planet of their own and couldn't communicate their way out of a damp paper bag much of the time..

Plus, having a wee bit to do with the web, I am constantly amazed at how little forethought goes into web design and ease of navigation and how assumption seems to substitute for logical analysis.

I still don't see how anyone could navigate their way to the bit about keyboards and mice: if they don't know the simplest and most basic stuff about how to use them!

At present, I receive constant reminders of just how confusing PCs can be, since I am trying, remotely, to assist a very dear friend, who is 78 and whose spouse is hospitalised and she is trying to hold the fort and communicate with family members scattered from Thailand to the USA, France and the UK. She is neither stupid or illogical.

And whilst she speaks reads and writes fluent French her mother tongue is  English.

For someone else whose mother tongue is not English, then the website under discussion could be an even greater problem.

 

[Tressy]

[quote user="Gluestick"]...I still don't see how anyone could navigate their way to the bit about keyboards and mice: if they don't know the simplest and most basic stuff about how to use them!

At present, I receive constant reminders of just how confusing PCs can be, since I am trying, remotely, to assist a very dear friend, who is 78 and whose spouse is hospitalised and she is trying to hold the fort and communicate with family members scattered from Thailand to the USA, France and the UK. She is neither stupid or illogical.

And whilst she speaks reads and writes fluent French her mother tongue is  English.

For someone else whose mother tongue is not English, then the website under discussion could be an even greater problem.[/quote]

I do see what you mean now, but people have to start somewhere. I'm assuming (always dangerous, I know) that those who know nothing about computers will have to be guided to that first stage (the 'lessons') before taking any of the practice tests, for instance. I know people attend classes to get to grips with what's required -perhaps the people running the classes start them off?

Their English has to be pretty good to take the tests, and on the whole the website uses reasonably plain English - better than the English in the tests, in fact.[;-)]

As for your friend, hopefully with practice she'll improve. I don't envy you trying to explain things 'remotely'. It's hard enough in the same room. I introduced my OH to PC's and the endless 'how do I go up/down/delete/edit?' questions used to drtive me round the twist.

[Russethouse]

Friends of ours went to 'Computer lessons' and the wife was amazed and amused to see her husband running the mouse over the screen....he certainly wasn't stupid,  but a retired successful business man

[Tressy]

[quote user="Russethouse"]Friends of ours went to 'Computer lessons' and the wife was amazed and amused to see her husband running the mouse over the screen....he certainly wasn't stupid,  but a retired successful business man[/quote]

Gawd, that's hilarious. [:-))]

You can't even say 'I'm sure we've all done it...'.

Are you quite sure he isn't stupid?[;-)]

 

[jimmytaktak]

[quote user="5-element"]

[8-)]

Jimmytaktak, I am intrigued.....

You claim to be French, yet, on another thread, you wrote that "they lived happy forever after" - i.e. standard ending for a fairy tale in English, is, in French: "Ils vécurent heureux pour toujours". That is patently wrong, and very un-French.

I don't know any French person who would NOT know that the standard ending for a fairy tale in French is "Ils vécurent heureux et eurent beaucoup d'enfants". This is standard in Marseille as well as anywhere else in France.

Any comments?

[/quote]

I know that the standard ending for a fairy tale in French is "Ils vécurent heureux et eurent beaucoup d'enfants" but I just translated the sentence. Sorry.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Tressy"]

[quote user="Russethouse"]Friends of ours went to 'Computer lessons' and the wife was amazed and amused to see her husband running the mouse over the screen....he certainly wasn't stupid,  but a retired successful business man[/quote]

Gawd, that's hilarious. [:-))]

You can't even say 'I'm sure we've all done it...'.

Are you quite sure he isn't stupid?[;-)]

 

[/quote]

I think it may be his vintage, he owned an upmarket hair salon, but trained with Teasy Weasy.......thats a bit of a give away...[;-)] 

 

[Gluestick]

My closest friend was a technophobe: quite some years ago, as someone deeply involved in ICT, I suggested, gently, during a round of golf, that he really had to get up to speed.

Now, he runs a company which employs 40 +.............He responded with normal masculine defence of ego: "I've run this company sucessfully for over 30 years .............!" etc, etc.

Secretly, eventually, he took himself off to evening classes and learned computer basics: then Word basics, then Excel etc................

Now he's a total techno-freak and walks around dripping with with digicams, conecting leads, can only show you his latest (software enhanced) snaps via a link to the TV and etc!

What a monster I've created!

A few years back he decided that his 80 year old Mum should "Get Wired" and he of three brothers was elected Techy Teacher.

His cris de cours came one evening, late, after a hard day in the office, when Mum 'phoned with a problem.

As we all know, trying diagnosis at the end of a 'phone is tricky, to say the least!

Apparently the conversation went somewhat along these lines.

Mum: "So what do I do now?"

Friend: "Right click!"

Mum: "I've written "Click" and nothing seeems to be happening?"

Collapse of friend.

We still laugh about this one!

 

 

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

I once sold 104 copies of a CBT (computer based training) package to Hertfordshire Libraries. The subject was 'how to use a mouse'.

[Chancer]

Similar to my "hit any key!"

"I have looked at all of them and I dont have an any key!"

[Russethouse]

A few more here :

http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2008/03/06/technology/circuitsemail/index.html?8cir&emc=cir

[5-element]

[quote user="jimmytaktak"]

I know that the standard ending for a fairy tale in French is "Ils vécurent heureux et eurent beaucoup d'enfants" but I just translated the sentence. Sorry.

[/quote]

Ah of course, that makes sense now, I didn't realise you were just translating the sentence literally. Je comprends tout maintenant. Sorry as well.[:)]

[Ron Avery]

I wish I did this thread is about immigration!!![8-)]

[5-element]

Oh dear! Now Ron is cross.

Again. I'll try to do better in future, promised.

 

 

[Tressy]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]I wish I did this thread is about immigration!!![8-)][/quote]

I'm careful about thse things these days.

You know, I let my friends take the bullet for deviation...I mean deviating from the topic. The topic was a programme only three people watched, if I recall correctly.[:D][6]

 

[Russethouse]

Now's your chance - I think its on later tonight ![:)]

[Tressy]

Still no Anglo-Vision here Gay.

I'm beginning to view my resistance as verging on self harming. How many normal people go over 4 years with just French TV?

Ooops there I go, being deviant again.

[Chancer]

Do UK immigrants wanting to become naturalised really have to take the test on a PC?

Dont they (we if you are in the UK) already have more than enough people who dont want to work and sit in front of their PC's all day?

Do immigrants really need to know how to use a mouse or keyboard to be an asset to the UK? I would have thought that being willing to work hard doing the jobs that others dont want/need to should be enough.

[Russethouse]

I think its possibly to do with handwriting issues... ? Much easier to assess if you can read it....[:)]

[Chancer]

You dont need legible handwriting to tick a box on a multiple choice question sheet, although the french might put a cross though[:)]

Just another excuse to make something simple into something complicated and spnd loads of money on a bespoke software project.

I bet the brainstorming sessions and the steering commitee meetings took place in somewhere like the Barbados.

[Russethouse]

Are they multiple choice questions ?

[NormanH]

There should be something like this, as well as a compulsory language test,  for British people coming to live in France.

[magaret]

[quote user="NormanH"]There should be something like this, as well as a compulsory language test,  for British people coming to live in France.
[/quote]

Yes would agree with you.

But the answer would be,

We are english ,why do they not speak it?

[Cat]

Erm, there is.

Only people applying for citizenship or non-Europeans applying for indefinite leave to remain in the UK need to take the UK test.

British people settling in France don't need to take a test, but if we want to apply for French citizenship then we are tested.  Seems fair enough to me.

 

[NormanH]

There isn't a huge difference between "applying for indefinite leave to remain in the UK " and " British people settling in France"..

Many people on this board say they are permanently settled. Isn't that "indefinite leave" ?

Of course with the old system the 'Carte de Séjour'  was for a limited period 5 or 10 years usually, and so there was a clear distinction between staying here for a while , and settling here, but that it now blurred.

This is why I think that it would be a good idea for people who intend to settle in France to take these two tests at the French Embassy before coming.

It could never be made compulsory, because of the freedom of movement in Europe, but it could avoid the sort of mistakes and unhappiness that sometimes occur when people don't research properly.

[Cat]

Citizens of most European states do not need to apply for indefinite leave to remain in the UK, and so do not need to take the test.  British citizens are shown the same consideration when settling in France.  No test needed either way.

Perhaps in an ideal world people would never make mistakes, some do no research and yet manage to make a go of it in France, and others spend years researching and still end up hating it here.