Mid purchase...then informed neighbour farmer MUST graze one of the fields for two more years?

[friend of stouby]

Hello everyone,

We need some pointers on a land rights matter that I haven't quite seen anywhere on this forum, and I know there are some wise people out there.

We have signed the 'compromise de vente' and apart from the current owner not registering the sale of a very small parcel of land for the neighbours to plant their fosse septique on  (we were shown the parcel before purchase and are quite happy about this), the whole exercise has so far been painless and very simple. I must say at this point that we have a stunning immobilier agent.

But today....we received an email to ask us to agree for a local farmer, also a neighbour to be, to continue grazing cattle on the largest of our fields for another 2 years at which point we regain full use of this field. This is a small fermette with 2 Ha of land.

He has been and is using about 80% of the land for cattle grazing up until we complete the purchase, maybe end March, when we expect to take over the property free of any rights or encumberances, including without any animals on it  (we had this clause inserted in the compromise...).

The agent has recently asked the farmer to sign a document that he will not use or have any claim to this land after sale date,  which he has said he is very happy to do, but to date hasn't returned the document.

This is what we are told has happened. The documents for the re-registering of the reduced size of the field that the neighbours fosse septique is in has been sent to SAFER, who have noted that the largest field with this property has had some form of grant paid for it to be farmed by the farmer neighbour until April 2008 and if he doesn't farm this he will have to repay some/all? of the grant. 

The agent's solution is to allow the farmer to farm this field for another 2 years in which time he will maintain it to a high standard. This farmer has maintained all the fields to a high standard so far.

Our thoughts are twofold. We really want to integrate into this rural communtiy and realise that we have to do certain things in a manner that they are done in the area, and how tradition dictates. We also realise that when we want to use this field for our own use in about 10 months time (we want to plant specimen trees on much of the land)  that we first will have to wait an extra year (not too big a problem as there will be much to do for quite a while), and second this may go horribly wrong and we never get the right to use this field if the farmer continues to want to farm it? We have read through many posts about this subject and feel mildly anxious about this.

We have been trying for about 3 weeks to assign an English speaking Notaire, but after waiting for 2 weeks for an answer from one Maitre, we were then told he was too ill to work so we have now tracked down a second, but he failed to return our phone call so far!  It now appears more important than ever to assign a Notaire who can explain the law to us  in this little matter, but as we are buying in the north of the Auvergne between Moulins annd Montlucon, there isn't a big tradition of incomers into the area and therefore not too many local facilities aimed at us.

I'm very sorry that this post is so long, but didn't know how to get over a strange situation.

Thanks for any opinions or pointers you may have, so far we haven't either committed ourselves to anything, nor given the agent our opinion.   

And last....one thing has puzzled us though.....when we signed the 'compromise de vente' at the agency office, we asked at that point for the clause to be added regarding no farming or grazing rights of any form to be continued after the point of sale. The current owner was present and this was explained to her. She, after consulting with her husband she agreed to this. She didn't live at the property but her mother had until recently, but had mannaged (very well) the upkeep of the buildings etc on behalf of her mother. The owner's husband was in the local farming industry but not a farmer. 

Why did they agree to allow the clause to be inserted as they must have known that the farmer neighbour would continue grazing this field?

Many thanks for your patience

Jamie

 

 

 

 

[Iceni]

FWIW unless I were buying land/property to yield investment income I would not do it with a sitting tenant.You seem to be in a lose/lose situation

Say no and if the sale goes ahead your neighbours will hate you, call down a plague of flies etc. and make your lives a pemanent nightmare.

Say yes and in 2 years time you may find that you have allowed a tenancy in perpetuity (sp ?)

But you HAVE committed yourselves, you have signed a compromis and possibly paid the deposit. The tricky bit is getting out of the deal without losing your deposit and on that you need legal assistance PDQ.

John

not

[bakerino]

Hi Jamie

 

I know of an English speaking notary in 24, not sure if they work out of there area, I think they do.  If some one on here can let you know if they do I could give you his details.  Also try posing the question on here

 

http://www.headdonconsulting.com/board/

 

They are very good and its all free advise, ( by a professional) however because of this replies can take a few days.  You also may get a better idea by reading their forum. (hope Im allowed to say that)

 

P.S  We pulled out of a purchase this year in simular circumstances  just because we dont like the risk element involved. i.e risk of falling out with the community.  Also if it worked out badly and you wanted to sell on any potential buyer may be put off and you could be stuck with it.  Our thoughts were if it worries us then it will worry another  potential buyer.

 

Good Luck

 

[friend of stouby]

 

Thanks John

We have paid the deposit and signed the compromise 5 weeks ago....but with Christmas, Notaire on holiday, delay while small parcel of land was starting to be registered, Notaire on holiday (again) so this hasn't moved as fast as it could have...up until now.

One of our initial thoughts was were the vendors in breach of contract as they signed the compromise agreeing to no animals on the land and can't deliver this part of the deal?

Also thought that there may be a way out for everybody, by having a local French Notaire to draw up a watertight document ensuring that the farmer neighbour must leave the land after 2 years....this would satisfy all parties maybe...the community as we have tried to help in a tricky matter, the farmer keeps his subsidy and gets another 2 years from this field, the vendors get their sale, we get the full use of our land in a time scale that we can easily live with?

 

Jamie

 

 

 

[friend of stouby]

Hello bakerino

thanks to you too.....we want to live in this area and want to TRY to solve this or any problem locally...so for a few days we will try to work with people in the region...

...but if that doesn't work out we will look for the best help we can get in which case I'll gratefully take up your offer of a notary contact and I'll look through the forum too, as you can't get enough information can you, thank you again for that.  

If our solution of a watertight document worked we would have the undisputed free use of all of the land in April 2008, so the concerns you had on the property you pulled out of wouldn't exist.

I am sorry that this happened to you too, although it's not the end of the world it's also not pleasant.

Jamie